015: Tiffany & Emilie
In this episode, we’re joined by Emilie Aries, Founder & CEO of Bossed Up, to chat about why job searching matters for all of us in the modern age.
We discussed:
How Emilie’s personal experiences with burnout led to the creation of Bossed Up
How Bossed Up has navigated through COVID-19 to new programs like Level Up and Hired
Trusting that if you’ve lost your job, you will get another one
Reframing your job search to one where you are offering value
Job searching as a skillset
Networking and interviewing
Show Notes
Bossed Up: https://bossedup.org/
Bossed Up Bootcamp: https://bossedup.org/bootcamp/
Level Up leadership accelerator: https://bossedup.org/levelup/
Hired job search accelerator: https://bossedup.org/gethired/
The Ultimate Job Search Guide for the Modern Woman: https://bossedup.org/jobsearch/
What to do if you’ve been laid off due to COVID: https://bossedup.org/what-to-do-if-youve-been-laid-off-due-to-covid19/
Jobless claims (CNBC): https://www.cnbc.com/jobless-claims/
Business Insider: https://www.businessinsider.com/us-weekly-jobless-claims-unemployment-insurance-filings-economy-coronavirus-recession-2020-6
Bossed Up, the podcast: http://www.bossedup.org/podcast
About Emilie Aries
Emilie Aries is a speaker, podcast host, author, and the Founder & CEO of Bossed Up, an award-winning personal and professional development community where she helps women craft happy, healthy, and sustainable career paths.
Her book, Bossed Up: A Grown Woman's Guide To Getting Your Sh*t Together, serves as a practical roadmap for women who want to set themselves up for sustainable, long-term career success and step up as the boss of their lives.
Follow Emilie & Bossed Up
Website: https://www.emiliearies.com/
Bossed Up: http://www.bossedup.org/
Bossed Up, the podcast: http://www.bossedup.org/podcast
Transcript
Tiffany Yu: You’re listening to Tiffany & Yu, the podcast. This is Tiffany Yu. On this episode, I’m joined by Emilie Aries, the Founder & CEO of Bossed Up, an award-winning personal and professional development community where she helps women craft happy, healthy, and sustainable career paths. In just a few months, the roughly 47 million unemployment claims filed during the coronavirus pandemic have far surpassed the roughly 37 million during the 18-month Great Recession. Emilie joined me to chat about job searching as a skillset, which not only means tactical advice for job seekers, but also why we should still be actively thinking and planning our next career move even if we are not looking.
Tiffany Yu: Hi everyone. You're listening to this episode of Tiffany & Yu. This is your host, Tiffany Yu, I have with me today, Emilie Aries. She's an award-winning speaker, podcaster, writer, and the Founder and CEO of Bossed Up. Hi, Emilie.
Emilie Aries: Tiffany. Thanks so much for having me.
Tiffany Yu: Of course. We met, I want to say back in 2014, does that sound about right?
Emilie Aries: Yeah, that's right. That was like my first full year in business.
Tiffany Yu: So I was a proud participant of the Bossed Up Bootcamp, which was all geared toward helping women kick ass in their careers.
Emilie Aries: Yeah.
Tiffany Yu: And since then, we have connected a couple of different times. First, it was for your book that came out, Bossed Up, A Grown Woman's Guide to Getting Your Sh*t Together. I shared a little bit about my job transitions and then we reconnected again, related to your podcast on an episode around building resilience.
Emilie Aries: Yes. I just can't get enough of Tiffany Yu in the Bossed Up world. I love it.
Tiffany Yu: And now I get to have Emilie on my podcast. I would love for our listeners to hear about your own career journey of creating Bossed Up.
Emilie Aries: Sure. So I got started in 2009 professionally when I graduated like so many millions of millennials into the height of the Great Recession. And I considered myself very fortunate when I was able to parlay an internship I had in Washington, DC, a paid internship, because I could not afford anything else, in politics and campaigns, which is what I'd studied, political science and cognitive science , into a state director position with the Obama administration. So I, at the ripe old age of, I believe it was 20, I don't even think I was 21 yet , stepped into the role of Rhode Island state director for Organizing for America, which was kind of like the campaign 2.0, and spent the next few years advocating for policy transitions, like health reform and a lot of other things that were administrative priorities by really organizing my community. I recruited, trained and managed over 200 volunteers and spent a lot of time helping other people make their voices heard in Washington and grow their power over their own democracy. But during that same time, I learned the hard way that burnout is right around the corner for those of us who pride ourselves on being achievers. My entire life, I put my nose to the grindstone, delivered what the professor or teacher wanted for me and waited for spring break on the horizon to give me permission to take a break. And as we all know, life after college doesn't look that way. So I went from being a college athlete to not having stepped foot in a gym for about three years after college. And I was working all the time because I felt very fortunate to have any work, much less work I so believed in. But what made matters even more complex was that I was in a really toxic relationship at the time with someone who, again, like millions of Americans, struggles with addiction and alcoholism, which somehow in all my years of education had not quite been covered. So I felt the need to martyr myself all day at work for my volunteers, for the cause, for the president, and then martyr myself at home to try to save my loved one's life. And that left me completely and utterly burnt out before the age of 25. And I sought out support finally. I got into a very qualified therapists office and I learned that, it is so hard, especially as women who've been conditioned our entire lives to take care of everyone else around us before we care for ourselves, it is a radical act to put yourself first. And I transformed my career and life over a couple of rocky years, starting with walking away from a state director position in Rhode Island to just start over in the city I'd always wanted to live in, Washington, DC. And after completely blowing up and then turning my life around, I wanted to better understand psychologically, intellectually how that happened, and how we might make it a little easier for women, in a world that still doesn't like women who dare to assert themselves, to actually step up as the boss of our own careers and lives. And that's where Bossed Up was born from back in 2013.
Tiffany Yu: The radical act of self-care really resonates with me. And I remember during the Bossed Up Bootcamp doing this exercise where you would have to do a rating or a check of how your relationships were, how your health was, how you felt about your work . And I still remember that exercise because I just knew that my cup wasn't full.
Emilie Aries: Hrm.
Tiffany Yu: And these days, I've been thinking a lot about cup not being full, still trying to show up, and just the dissonance and the tension that kind of exists there.
Emilie Aries: Definitely. And the first step, as you mentioned, is taking stock of where you're at. We live in a world that sort of cheers for people who start things and make progress and check off boxes. But the quiet revolution happens in contemplative ways, right? In checking in with yourself and journaling and meditation. And I was moving so fast thinking that I needed to get to some kind of destination early on in my career that I didn't at that point value the information, the data, the insight that was already within me. If I had just stood still long enough to listen to myself and explore what I really want and where, like you said, there is dissonance that needs to be resolved.
Tiffany Yu: And so now we fast forward seven years to 2020, we are having a little bit of this great reset for those of us who do have the privilege to still be working from home or spending time at home to really check in with ourselves. We're recording this in mid June. Things are different. I still remember getting an email from you earlier this year. You were going to come out to San Francisco to do a workshop. Things were starting to get canceled.
Emilie Aries: Yeah.
Tiffany Yu: Tell me about how things have shifted for you and Bossed Up.
Emilie Aries: Oh my gosh, so much has shifted for all of us, right? So I remember, I think it was the second week of March, when everything changed in the US. It had already been changing across the world, but that's when we finally caught up. Every single engagement, including Bossed Up Bootcamps, and including all of my corporate work coming into companies to help train and support their teams and public speaking work. All of it for the entire year was canceled in one week in March. And that was about one week after I had just signed the full time contract of my second ever full time employee. So in the first three months of the year, I tripled my payroll and then everything changed. And I have to say, being a business owner is hard, but it's kind of like you, just like all professionals, you learn from your past in a way that hopefully makes your ability to problem solve in the future accelerate. And it has not been easy, just like all of us small business owners, but we at Bossed Up, including my two fantastic full time team members, have been able to transform our business model completely in the last two months to continue to support our community of tens of thousands of women across the world who come to bossedup.com for career resources, who need them now more than ever in a way that can't be done offline. So instead of Bossed Up Bootcamp, which is not going to happen for the remainder of 2020, we have launched a new leadership development accelerator online for six months at a time called Level Up. And for those who are looking for jobs, we really spent most of March just providing as many free resources as possible for job seekers, starting with our 70 page Ultimate Job Search Guide for the Modern Woman, which is available for free at https://bossedup.org/jobsearch/. And we also now have programming for those who are, as you astutely pointed out, questioning whether their job is right for them anymore as they work from home, or as they've been disappointed in seeing how their employer has reacted to a pandemic and really learned more about their company's priorities for full time employees who are ready to navigate a pivot and make a change. We have a three month job search accelerator program now called Hired and I loved not only learning new ways that we can support our community, but I've been actually amazed at how fast my team and I have been able to really listen to our community members and figure out what we can do for them in this bizarre time and this troubling time to be of value to women in moving their careers forward, even when we can't deliver that value in the same way as we have for the past seven years. So honestly, Tiffany, I might as well be back in 2014 right now, because it feels like I'm starting a completely different business over and I'm grateful for the community that we've built over the years to have helped me figure that out.
Tiffany Yu: I love that. I saw you had come out with this guide. A lot of my friends were getting laid off or furloughed and people not being sure what to do. And, I've just been so impressed with how quickly you've been able to pivot. And come out with these new digital offerings that are adding value.
Emilie Aries: Thank you! I'm impressed with my team. I'm impressed with what the hell we've been able to turn around, because it didn't seem possible a few months ago, but it's the power of active listening, right. Really focus grouping, talking to our community. And everything I do at Bossed Up has always been about finding the right balance between giving away as much high quality, valuable resources as we can to those who can't afford more. Right? Like if you are laid off due to COVID, we've been producing webinars and podcasts and this free job search guide and a specific blog post and podcast I did back on March 25th, specifically about how to handle it if you've been laid off. But I need to balance how to give away high quality free stuff, with our premier programs for those who are able to afford it, so that we can deliver even higher levels of value.
Tiffany Yu: Yes. I came across something a couple of weeks ago called "the six human needs." And one of them is called uncertainty- change, challenge, excitement. And I love that you feel like you're back in 2014 now because we all need a little bit of uncertainty in our lives to grow and to be challenged. So let me just take a quick break here. And then when we come back, we'll continue chatting with Emilie about all of the things that she's doing around navigating your job search.
[break]
Tiffany Yu: And we're back from the break here with Emilie Aries, the CEO and Founder of Bossed Up. Hi Emilie!
Emilie Aries: Hey Tiffany. Thanks for having me.
Tiffany Yu: So again, we're recording this mid June. I want to read a couple headlines . So one is from CNBC. It says "Jobless claims total 1.5 million, worse than expected as economic pain persists." Then another one I'm seeing from Business Insider saying, "Continuing claims, the aggregate total number of people receiving unemployment benefits, totaled 20.5 million for the week that ended on June 6th." Before the break, Emily chatted about how she came out with this guide in March . And now we're in June. Pandemic is still ongoing.
Emilie Aries: Yeah. Okay. So first I want to just acknowledge that no one in the news, no talking heads, no journalists, and certainly no government officials know what the hell is going on. If anyone is saying, here's what's going to happen next, I would raise a very high eyebrow because we don't have a clue what the pandemic plan for an economy looks like. We just don't know. That's why I think jobs numbers have been kind of up and down. It is to be determined how long this will last and how severely it will impact everyone. But what we all need to think about is what is our short term plan for survival, and what is our longterm plan for success? Because even if you do find yourself laid off as an airline flight attendant, you're not going to be necessarily in an industry that's booming again for a while, but no one knows. No one knows. I think the medical news is important to pay attention to what's happening with Moderna in terms of vaccine trials, what's happening with treatment options. I'm more encouraged by the treatment options, which allude to when and if we might be able to get this pandemic under control. That impacts the economy in such vast ways. That being said, for those 1.5 million unemployed folks, we have to remember that the question is not if, it is when you will get a job, because you will get a job again, and we all need to keep our anxiety in check on that. I personally struggle with anxiety when you said, "You know, we all need uncertainty, change, challenge, excitement." I was like, "Ooh, I don't need that much uncertainty."
Tiffany Yu: You're like, no, thank you.
Emilie Aries: Right, and my therapist always reminds me like, "Listen, Emily, here's your anxiety trying to help you. Anxiety is saying to you, there's danger ahead. So you should prepare. You should batten down the hatches, you should not relax." It keeps you in high alert mode and that's your body's natural system, alarm system, really trying to keep you alert. So if you feel that way, we have to acknowledge that your anxiety is simply trying to help you. That being said, we then need to check the facts. Am I never going to get a job again? No highly unlikely, unless maybe you're already at the tail end of your career and thinking about retiring early . We need to sit down and ask for help from those in our communities, whether it's financial professionals, whether it's podcasts like this one, we need to seek out support because nothing good happens when you close the door and just sort of fester in your own anxiety and worry. That doesn't lead to any forward momentum. And the final thing is to get out there and start communicating with those who love you, not just listening to experts for guidance, but connecting with people who know you best. My sister in law, Jessica, was coming back from maternity leave when COVID really hit. And when she called her employer to figure out next steps, they said, "Actually, don't come back. We're going to have to furlough you as our legal marketing director. You're furloughed." With a two month old baby at home. And Jessica took to LinkedIn as the legal marketing expert that she is, and put up a post that said, "I am a COVID-19 job seeker. I've been recently furloughed and I'm ready to help you, your mid to large size law firm who needs support with client acquisition, with marketing, with bottom line business development. I'm your person. Give me a call." And within 20 minutes, not only was she considering multiple short term contracts, but actually her employer called her back and said, "Wait, don't leave us for good. Just kidding. Let's work something out. We can bring you back part time." So, nothing changes if nothing changes. So we have to be vocal about asking for help. We have to keep in touch with our networks and remind folks, not just that you need a job, like, "Help me, help me, help me. I need a job." But do what Jessica did, which is, "Here's how I can help you. Here's the audience that I can serve. Let me know if I can serve you."
Tiffany Yu: Hmm. I love that you provided these tactical things of realistically looking at, first of all, just take a breath. It is normal to feel grief and to move through those stages. But then second, ask yourself, are you really never going to get a job again? Because that's the narrative that we're stuck in. I think it takes a little bit of vulnerability and I'm not sure if people are feeling bolder and stronger now to go out and say, Hey, this is my situation right now. This is what I'm looking for. Do you have tips around overcoming that hurdle?
Emilie Aries: Yeah. I totally agree. I wish we lived in a world that normalized vulnerability more. But as Brene Brown would say, vulnerability is a prerequisite to connection. So, if you're looking for the kinds of connections that will help you get a job, vulnerability cannot be avoided, unfortunately. Is it painful and uncomfortable? Yes, always. Is it essential for connection? Unfortunately, yes, always too. So again, I would try to flip the narrative from, "Help, help, help! I'm in trouble. I need your help." And I'm kind of begging, which nobody wants to do, right. That doesn't feel good. To instead thinking, "What are my skills? And who could use them right now ?" One of my clients in our accelerator program started our three month job search accelerator called Hired when she had a full time job in March as a higher education, essentially like a guidance counselor, but for international students. And it's probably not that surprising to learn that a month later, her company, which actually was contracting with the university, started to have to close up shop because international students are not coming to college in the US right now. That is just not a reality right now. And so she got laid off in the middle of our three month accelerator program and all of a sudden her priorities really shifted, but she had already been doing the work that my clients do with me of figuring out what her best skills were. The skills that she was not only good at, but wanted to develop further, where she can provide unique value to people. And who in her network she needed to connect with, because they might be the kinds of people who would find her skillset valuable. So within one month, within the context of this three month accelerator, she went from having a job, to getting laid off, to considering a job offer, negotiating it with our help as part of the program, and then landing a full time job at a university that technically at the time, had a public hiring freeze. So all of this is to say that, if you focus on what you can do for others and who those others are, really push yourself to identify who are the people in the world, who are the people in the economy who could use me right now? Having faith that you are of use to people, that you are worthy of other people's attention and not to mention money , that your skill sets have value in the marketplace. That is a totally different mindset that can help you reach out because you're not reaching out to see if they can help you out. You're reaching out to see if you can help them reach their goals right now. And that kind of lowers the bar from what I've I've seen.
Tiffany Yu: Now I'm thinking about skills gap or whatever that may mean. What are you thinking, if someone is at that point where they do have both the internal self care reset and the professional reset. Are there particular skills that you're recommending to people to maybe look into for their next thing?
Emilie Aries: Yeah, it's so interesting because I consider job searching a skillset, in and of itself and politics taught me how to be very good at that because no matter how well you perform on a campaign, come election day, win, lose, or draw, you are out of a job. So early, early on in my career, I had to get very good at always having one eye on what's next. I think as professionals, in a fast paced environment, it doesn't hurt to always be thinking about what's next for you. And that means working on your personal brand, that means thinking critically about networking. It's not something you only do when you need something from your network. Establishing yourself as a thought leader. It's actually the next program that we'll be releasing at Boss ed Up in July is a new version of my public speaking training that's been a fan favorite for years, but I can't do in person anymore. And we're essentially rolling out like a new program that's virtual for thought leadership. How to position yourself as not just a great hard worker, but someone who has something to say about your industry, about the world, kind of reputation management for professionals with a lot of ambition. So job searching, networking, positioning yourself as a thought leader, understanding and honing and developing your personal brand and your professional persona, all of that's part of job searching in the modern era because listen, anyone who's sending out a hundred job applications via one click LinkedIn or one click Indeed apps a day knows they don't work. You're just getting put in a never ending digital pile of resumes that don't even get seen. So on top of having great job search assets, like references and a resume and a cover letter and a personal story that you've worked on, you also need to have internal referrals and do the networking thing that's going to help you help that, that all that work you put into your application actually pay off because it'll actually be seen by a human.
Tiffany Yu: Right. What does networking look like in a digital age?
Emilie Aries: Yeah, such a great question. Virtual networking doesn't actually look all that different from in person networking, much to my introverted clients' chagrin. They still have to schedule calls and video chats and virtual coffees. So if I look at my network, I might assess, okay, who works at a company, or even has in the past, worked at a company that I might be interested in getting hired at? I'm going to send that person an email saying, Hey, how's it going? I hope this finds you happy, healthy, and well. I know it's been a while, but I'm currently looking to advance and I'd love to hear about your experience at this employer and see if I can support you and your career in return. Do you have 20 minutes to chat over Zoom? I'd love to buy you a virtual coffee. And then after our coffee, I might send them a $5 Starbucks gift card for the next time they have a chance to get out and about. Or whatever your, what is it, Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf over on the West Coast? Whatever your, your preferred coffee shop of choice, right?
Tiffany Yu: Peets, Philz, Blue Bottle. The list goes on.
Emilie Aries: Here you go. There's a lot of better options than Starbucks. Yes. But then, that email gets ignored because it's nobody's top priority to get back to you. It just isn't. So then three days later, five days later, seven days later, I bump it up and I say, Hey, Tiffany, I know it's been a while. Just wanted to make sure you saw my note from last week. And then they finally get back to me, maybe if I'm lucky, and then we schedule a call. And on that call, I share what's going on with me, what my values are, what my skill sets are, how I can be of support to the companies that I'm looking at. And ask about their story, their values, and what's happening in their life. And see if there's an ask there. Are they willing to put me in touch with the contacts they have? Are they willing to help facilitate a referral or a connection, or do they know of anyone who might be able to use me? I might follow up with my resume, saying thanks so much for keeping your ear to the ground for me, let me know if you hear of anything. And then I might follow up with the people that they introduced me to you and the cycle starts over. People want to help people that they feel like they know. You need to have a phone call or a video chat to feel like you know someone well enough to refer them. And you have to get to know their story too, and why they care and what motivates them and what's going on with them so you can find ways to be of support in return. That mutuality is a really important mindset to bring to networking or community building or whatever you want to call it. I like just thinking I have a lot of friends out there in the world, you included, and I love making new friends. So trying to approach it in a lighthearted way, but being responsible and respectful of everyone else's time is key.
Tiffany Yu: Yes. And one of the beautiful things that has come out of the pandemic is the ability to really just reconnect with anyone regardless of geographic location. And previously I had always been like, Oh, I'll only grab coffee because this person's in town. And now it's just like, Oh, hey, let's catch up to see how things are going.
Emilie Aries: Right. I would say, keep in mind, it's exhausting, like especially for introverts. It definitely saps up some energy. So be mindful of it. Don't overdo it. Don't burn yourself out doing it. But I like to set small goals for myself. If I'm a full time job seeker, can I apply to one thing every day? Can I have at least one or two meetings with people that I don't already know every week? I think the ratios here are real. You've got to put in the work. You've got to pound the pavement to get results. So there's an element here of make sure your resume isn't hurting you, you know what I mean? Make sure your cover letter make sense, that your online brand is good, that when people Google you, they find what you want them to find. And also you got to get out there. You gotta knock some doors, you got to make some calls and that's the political organizer in me. Right? You gotta pound the pavement to see results.
Tiffany Yu: I love what you said in terms of even if the goal is just one application per day, or maybe one email outreach per day, and as an introvert, I totally get it. I will include a link because there was way more to the job- there's like 70 pages worth of this guide that is amazing. I want to ask you about interviews. What have you seen change in the COVID environment?
Emilie Aries: Great question. Well, it really depends widely because my clients span across industries. I have a senior IT app developer who has been at the same healthcare company for 28 years who's currently interviewing in a different company all the way across the country. And she just has like four interviews ahead of her. That screener interview went well, but now there's behavioral interviews, and technical interviews, and another behavioral interview, and panel interviews ahead. So it can be a very long and arduous process. I don't think that's changed because of the pandemic, but it is important to keep in mind that like job applications themselves, interviewing takes an exorbitant amount of time. The other thing I'll say is, I'm actually really disappointed by how many employers just ghost candidates. I think that may have increased. I suspect it may have increased because of the pandemic, because HR professionals are human beings too, and they're burnt out and they're fried and they're dealing with what we're all dealing with, but it is truly unfortunate how many clients of mine and loved ones just get ghosted. It's like, how can we do that to job candidates? It's so rude. It's just beyond acceptable. And it tells you something about that company anyway, that you didn't want to work for them probably. The interview process now is a little more complicated because of technology. My brilliant, hardworking 60 something year old mother got a nursing job in the middle of the pandemic in Denver, Colorado, and she and my father and my little brother left their home of 30 years in Connecticut and moved across the country to hang out here with me and my husband now in Denver. And they just moved into their new place here in the middle of the pandemic . Imagine like coaching a 60 something year old on how to prepare for a Skype interview. You know what I mean was just, there was a high possibility of technology getting in the way of human connection. So it's more important than ever to know the top tips on, okay, position your set. You need to set your whole room up like it's a video production set. Have what's going on behind you be aligned with your personal brand and align with the message that you want to share. Put yourself not all the way against a wall, which can feel really flat, but a little bit off a wall. Make sure you've got good lighting, preferably from a natural light source, like a window. Prop that laptop or cell phone up a little higher than eye contact so it's kind of pointing down at you. Make sure the technology is something you can test ahead of time. Ask your interviewer, Hey, what software will we be using? I want to make sure it's downloaded so that you're not late to your interview. Because all of those little first impressions, whether it's a dark room or a bad connection, can unfortunately really detract , or distract from what a great candidate you are. And you don't want to be sweating bullets because your wifi is not working and your dog is barking and your toddler is breaking into your office or your living room in the middle of an interview . Interviews are stressful enough so try to remove the stress of virtual interviewing by testing everything and practicing with the medium that you'll be working with.
Tiffany Yu: There were a lot of pro tips in there. I didn't even think about all of the impressions that the whole process of just logging into a Zoom interview or logging into a Skype interview. And then the anxiety that does come up, if you have to go through an update, right. You log in and then, and then your audio doesn't work.
Emilie Aries: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I've heard it all. I've heard it all.
Tiffany Yu: This was all super helpful. One of the things you've really made me think about when you were talking about hiring managers ghosting is I just feel like the job search process is not fun at all for the candidate through the whole thing.
Emilie Aries: Is dating fun? Is dating fun? Because like, it depends on how you approach it. Right? It's that same thing. If it's goal oriented, it's going to be stressful because there's a win or a lose, right? So if you approach dating as the goal is marriage or relationship or whatever, there's going to be an element of stress to it. If you're job searching, perhaps even continuously, even when you have a great job, you keep one foot or one eye out in the other realm of what else is out there, it's less nerve wracking because you have less to lose. You're not unemployed. When you're unemployed and a paycheck is a basic need in a way that a boyfriend or girlfriend just isn't ,of course there's going to be some discomfort there and stress there.
Tiffany Yu: That is true.
Emilie Aries: At the end of the day, try to remember that you have skills and gifts the world needs. And job searching is just about finding who needs it now and aligning your value and what you want to be valuable at, the value that you want to deliver with who needs it now. So if you can stay kind of charitable in that mindset and confident in your ability to figure it out, it's just a matter of time. It is a leap of faith. It takes a bit of faith and resilience and, easier said than done, but it's a journey that I think a lot of us are on to, to really fully embracing our value as worthy individuals who have something to share with the world.
Tiffany Yu: I love this idea of you have a gift that needs to be shared.
Emilie Aries: Yeah.
Tiffany Yu: And reframing it that way. If people want to follow you, where is the best place to do that?
Emilie Aries: Well, if you're listening to this podcast on any podcast app, you should find the Bossed Up podcast while you're here, because I deliver two new episodes every single week on topics ranging from the job search to leadership development, to dismantling systems of oppression and racism and misogyny, and really lots of other great ways to be the boss of your career and life. And I'd love to have you subscribe and listen to the Bossed Up podcast.
Tiffany Yu: Awesome. What are you doing for yourself these days?
Emilie Aries: What am I doing for myself these days? I'm gardening a lot. I have a whole victory garden going. I've gone from having a black thumb to spending every summer trying to get a little bit better. And, I'm delighted to say, I think my tomatoes are going to be the best ever this year. I've got a big, whole fancy garden now. It feels very fancy with soaker hoses. And I feel like I've poured all of my attention into this garden when I haven't been able to have much of a social life. So that's exciting.
Tiffany Yu: The garden sounds like it's growing. Emilie, thank you for coming on my podcast.
Emilie Aries: Thank you, Tiffany. It's always a pleasure seeing the great things you're up to and the great ways you're making the world a better place.