004: Tiffany & Kevin

COVID-19
Written By Tiffany Yu

TIFFANY & KEVIN | "The Homeless Front" of COVID-19 (coronavirus) ft. Kevin F. Adler (Miracle Messages)

Listen on: Apple // Spotify // Google

In this episode, we're chatting with Miracle Messages' Kevin F. Adler on #TheHomelessFront of COVID-19 (coronavirus) and supporting our neighbors experiencing homelessness.

We discussed:

  • How Kevin started Miracle Messages

  • The different programs offered through Miracle Messages

  • Misconceptions around homelessness

  • The importance of bringing housed and unhoused neighbors together

  • How things have (or haven't) shifted since COVID-19

  • How we can help support our unhoused neighbors during this pandemic

SHOW NOTES

ABOUT KEVIN F. ADLER

Kevin F. Adler is the Founder & CEO of Miracle Messages, an award-winning nonprofit that reconnects people experiencing homelessness with their loved ones… and with us as their neighbors. To-date, Miracle Messages has facilitated 325+ reunions.

Previously, Kevin co-founded three education technology startups, and authored a book on how shared traumas can bring us together. Kevin is a graduate of Cambridge University and Occidental College, where he was the 2018 Young Alumnus of the Year and where Barack Obama's favorite professor said, "in 40 years of teaching, Kevin is the single best student I’ve ever had."

Kevin has been honored as a Presidential Leadership Scholar, TED Resident, MassChallenge winner, SXSW Community Service Award winner, and Rotary scholar. Kevin has given talks at TED, SXSW, HUD, HHS, Google, Berkeley, and Stanford. Kevin’s work has been featured in the New York Times, Washington Post, on a billboard in Times Square, and hundreds more.

FOLLOW MIRACLE MESSAGES

TRANSCRIPT

[Opening Medley by RootHub]

Tiffany Yu: Hi everyone, it's Tiffany and you're listening to Tiffany & Yu. Today, I have the CEO and Founder of Miracle Messages, Kevin Adler. So Kevin and I met, probably 2017 or so, we're both part of a really great community called Sandbox. And we just so happened to be on a retreat together in Tahoe. I got to learn a little bit more about his work. He's an amazing storyteller and thought it was extremely topical to have him on the show today.

Kevin Adler: Thanks Tiffany and likewise, very inspired by your work. What a great name for a podcast, Tiffany & Yu, are you kidding me? Can we just acknowledge that? What a great name.

Tiffany Yu: [laughs] So this episode is called “Tiffany & Kevin,” which I like that so yeah. One of the many times my last name does come in handy. But figured we would kick it off. I would love to have our listeners learn a little bit more about you and how you came into starting Miracle Messages.

Kevin Adler: Thank you. I had an uncle who was homeless for about 30 years. He suffered from schizophrenia, on and off the streets. And I never really thought of him as a “homeless man.” I just kind of thought of him as my beloved uncle. So after he passed away, I started just thinking a little deeper about the people I was passing every day on the street. I worked in EdTech and I've always been a social entrepreneur. And so I’d go to the office and leave and come home, thinking, “I'm making the world a better place” and trying to do that. But then I’d see this--more and more suffering. It just started being recognized as, wow, an experience that people like my uncle are going through. And so I started initially with this question of, how can I use storytelling tools like smartphones, social media, wearable cameras to help tell the stories of people like my uncle Mark, so they're less invisible. And the first project was called “Homeless GoPro,” where over the course of the year, 24 individuals experiencing homelessness volunteered to wear GoPro cameras around their chests and narrate their experience of what life is like on the streets. So I got the footage back, I was really overwhelmed by what I heard and what I saw, and specific to Miracle Messages, I heard a quote that started being said over and over in different versions. And it was something like, “hey you know I never realized I was homeless when I lost my housing, only when I lost my family and friends.” When I heard that, I was like, oh my gosh, you know, that makes total sense but I've never heard any service provider articulate it--any government agency articulate this, what I’ve come to call “relational poverty” aspect of homelessness, this isolation, this disconnectedness. Long story sort of short, I decided in December 2014 to take a walk down Market Street in downtown San Francisco, went up to every person I saw who was experiencing homelessness, and just asked them a very simple question, “Do you have any family or friends you'd like to reconnect with?” And the first person I met was a man named Jeffrey. He said he hadn't seen his family in 22 years. On the spot, I sat down with him, asked if you'd like to record a video message to his niece, his nephew, his sister, his dad. He said yes. I went home that night and posted the video and a note about Jeffrey on a Facebook group that I found connected to his hometown. Within 1 hour of that post, the video was shared over a hundred times and it made the local news that night. Classmates, neighbors, people who knew Jeffrey started commenting, “Hey, I went to school with Jeffrey.” “I work in construction, does he need a job?” “I work at the congressman's office, does he need healthcare?” First 20 minutes of the post, his sister got tagged. We got on the phone the next day and she told me that Jeffrey was a missing person for 12 years. And this broad daylight in downtown San Francisco a few days before Christmas. And so that led me to quit my job and start doing this work full time, because I knew Jeffrey wasn't the only one and that this shouldn't be happening. And that is what became the first Miracle Message reunion.

Tiffany Yu: That’s amazing. I think what I find so compelling is, I’ve heard you talk about this difference between homelessness and houselessness before of that relational poverty. And I think what it's also showcasing is the beautiful, the upside, the positive side of social media, of viral messaging, of messages that should be going viral. So I am looking at some of the stats here. It’s 300 families reunited to date. That number is probably higher now. Average of 15-ish years separated from their loved ones or the people they were looking for. I know you had been hosting a couple of different programs as well, around lunches and other things like that. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Kevin Adler: Yeah absolutely. So it's not just me running around with a smartphone on the streets of San Francisco anymore. I do that sometimes. Now we have volunteers that record messages in their own communities. So we have a mobile app that people can download, Miracle Messages in the App Store. We have a hotline. The phone number is 1-800-MISS-YOU and that allows clients themselves, individuals experiencing homelessness and families that are looking for them to reach out and share the information that we need to start the search. There is also an online form, a paper form, and that all goes into a case management system, where we have a network of volunteer digital detectives that we train on how to make phone calls, write letters, do digital searches to try to find family members and friends and other loved ones. Some of the initiatives that we offer on a regular basis before COVID-19 and we can talk about what has happened since. But before COVID-19, we do monthly shelter visits at different facilities in the Bay Area. Visit for a meal program and offer a person if they want to reconnect and really just have conversations and get to know our neighbors as neighbors. We have started an intergenerational buddy system, where we've been matching formerly homeless and at-risk of homeless senior citizens at affordable housing sites with young professionals for monthly phone calls, check ins, and that program just got kicked off. We have modified it a bit given physical distancing to be all online, remote, phone and text based rather than in person. We have a program where we hire people who were formerly homeless as community ambassadors and send them to the streets to offer Miracle Messages to people who are in similar situations to what they’re in and a whole host of other programs. A program called “Find Them,” which is helping families that have missing homeless relatives record messages and even though that seems like its a needle in a haystack thing, “hey, I’m looking for my homeless brother in San Francisco, can you help me find him?” We’ve actually been able to make about 8 reunions from that. It’s a pretty full and complete set of programs, all related to this overarching goal of reconnecting our neighbors experiencing homelessness with their loved ones but also with us as their neighbors better connecting with them and really addressing this relational poverty in all its forms.

Tiffany Yu: As someone who doesn't have the lived experience of homelessness, what do you think is the biggest misconception?

Kevin Adler: I just begin by saying, I also don't have the lived experience of homelessness so I'm always a little weary of speaking on behalf of people that I haven't experienced myself that horrific thing. But what I will say, is from 1500 conversations I’ve now had with our neighbors on the streets, I hear some themes and patterns emerge. One is related to mental health and substance abuse, and what people think of as the most common reasons why people are on the streets. It’s a considerable factor. It's certainly a lot of people are there because of substance dependencies or mental health issues but it's nowhere near the majority. There’s much more of homelessness that’s caused by poverty, losing a home, health issues, losing a job, relational brokenness, domestic violence, LGBTQ youth getting in fights with family, getting kicked out, unsafe living situations, death, divorce, separations. The kinds of stuff we all face.

Tiffany Yu: Domestic violence, that list is just... it’s very complex of course.

Kevin Adler: For the people who have experienced mental health issues or have some substance dependency, the thing that they always say in different forms, they say, “the one thing I wish that people knew is that I'm so much more of a threat to myself than I am to them.” And reflecting on that comment, the level of introspection and reflection and even self-awareness on the streets is just mind-boggling. The number one reason why people are disconnected from their loved ones in our experience is because of shame and embarrassment and fear. It's hard on the outside, if you've never been homeless, to say “if I was homeless, I'm calling everyone. I’m making phone calls, I’m posting, “help me get me off the streets. I need help now.” But a lot of individuals, they’re so embarrassed or ashamed of their situation that they end up not reaching out to their support systems. And sometimes support systems aren't there, sometimes the support systems are fragile or even part of the problem itself in cases of domestic violence or LGBTQ youth. But the idea of self isolating because of something you’ve done or you’re going through and buying into this narrative in our society that a person who’s on the streets is a problem not a person, that’s problematic and we hear that a lot in the reflections of our neighbors on the streets.

Tiffany Yu:One of things that I find a lot of parallels with your work and my work is --I often tell people that one of the best ways to tackle any type of bias is through real-life, continuous experiences with people who challenge your stereotypes. And that’s why I think that the work that you're doing--getting our housed and unhoused neighbors interacting with each other is a really powerful way to tackle these preconceived notions around what that experience is like.

Kevin Adler: Relationships matter for all of us. And if you’re in relationship with people experiencing homelessness, you’ll have such a better grasp of the issues and challenges at least a subset of people face. And if you don’t, the best way to learn more about it is to build relationships and make at least one friend who's housing insecure or experiencing homelessness.

Tiffany Yu: I do want to transition over to--I don’t even know if I would call it an “elephant in the room”--an elephant of the world--and that is the fact that we are living in a global health crisis right now. About 3 weeks ago, we’re recording this at the beginning of April, about 3 weeks ago, a “shelter in place” ordinance was placed on San Francisco. There was some wording in there that said people who are homeless are exempt from the order but encouraged to find shelter. I know you were propelled into action, wanted to hear a little bit more about how your work has shifted.

Kevin Adler: This is a 5 hour podcast, right? 

Tiffany Yu: Part 1.

Kevin Adler: Part 1, miniseries. It’s shifted a lot and in some ways it hasn’t shifted. In the way it has not shifted is our core values are still the same, Our core raison d'être, why we're here, that’s still the same. It’s to help people who are experiencing homelessness better connect with their loved ones and with us as their neighbors and to then work with other providers to try to make that possible and get them the support that they need and tell their stories in the process. That’s pretty consistent. What has shifted is how that's been manifested. What we continue doing and has been busier than ever is some of our reunion work. So in the City of San Francisco, their preeminent reunification program is called Homeward Bound. It’s a one way bus ticket has been replicated across the country. That program is right now suspended. There's no one way bus tickets home. Homeward Bound is responsible for about 28% of the successful exits from shelters in San Francisco. So when a person leaves a shelter successfully and goes into housing, almost a third of the time it’s as a result of reunifying with family through Homeward Bound. So with that program shut down, our program is still operating. We have our hotline, we have our mobile app, paper form, online form, our case management system, our digital detectives. So we are getting more and more phone calls, we are getting more and more referrals. Just a few days ago, we had a referral from Homeward Bound, where an individual on the streets--he had lost his phone and wallet and was essentially stuck in San Francisco and was precariously housed or might have been pretty low socioeconomic status as it was, but because of the lockdown and all these service providers closing off and shelters shutting down, he couldn’t get access to any services. And he was just stuck and not doing well in this city that has essentially shuttered. So he got referred to us, within 20 minutes of being on the phone with him, we got a hold of his friend. He had no idea how to reach his friend, we got him on the phone, we connected them on a conference call. And the friend said, come stay with me during this thing. I want you to get off the streets. He was able to get with his friend and resolve his situation. So that was exciting. In addition to the reunification services and increasing capacity on the hotline and other tools. And imagine “Find Them” too with families. If you had a brother on the streets right now or a son or a mom, you’d be terrified, even more than usual. How are they doing? So we’re working with those cases to try to resolve them. We’ve also been working on the frontlines with providers that are in need of hand sanitizer, and wipes, and masks. And so we’ve worked now with about 20 or 25 different service providers and hospitals in the Bay Area to get to use our volunteer network and infrastructure to procure hand sanitizer and other critical supplies, and then get them delivered. We’ve done about a hundred or so deliveries to 20 or 25 organizations. And then Miracle Friends has launched with an intergenerational buddy system and there are few initiatives that are coming up in the next few days or next couple weeks that I’m really excited about that basically expand on some of these programs in a more sustainable way at an even larger scale. So I'll have to point people out to our website MiracleMessages.org to stay tuned for when that is released.

Tiffany Yu: For sure. We’re going to take a quick break here and then when we come back, we’ll continue talking about some of the work that you’re doing and what you’re seeing on the frontlines.

Kevin Adler: Great.

[ad]

Tiffany Yu: And we're back with Kevin Adler, the CEO and Founder of Miracle Messages. Before the break, he was chatting with us a little bit about how their work has and hasn't shifted since COVID-19, some of the great work he's been doing in terms of getting supplies to service providers. I remember seeing on WhatsApp some of the messages that you sent when shelter-in-place was first put into place around getting some distilleries to start making more hand sanitizer. What was the thinking behind getting the large doses of those? Were you in contact with the service providers already knowing that they were going to need them? I believe they are still very much short-handed with a lot of supplies.

Kevin Adler: Yeah, we are very much so. As initial context for that question, I studied in grad school how disaster and shared traumas can act as a catalyst to bring people together. And actually wrote a book on that topic. And the reason I mention that is that I’ve been thinking about disasters, traumas, collective experiences as it relates to homelessness and housing insecure individuals for a long time. And because I've been looking at different examples and problems in different communities, I'm aware of a few needs that emerge anytime that there's a disaster, and one of them is coordinating of supplies. Seeing that over and over, there's been organizations that have kind of come and gone that have tried to solve that problem, but when you're in a crisis mode, it's so important to have a little bit of infrastructure, but really the social capital of relationships, the credibility, the trust, the “we know who this person is so we'll share it” and they have vested interest in our community. I just thought that we could play a very crucial role as an organization that is essentially still operating at full capacity but is not on the frontlines and doesn't have the worry of operating a shelter or a soup kitchen, that we could probably provide support to those organizations that do operate shelters and soup kitchens. As I started hearing about needs, put together a spreadsheet and multiple iterations of it. It ended up being a very useful tool for about 20-25 organizations to get hand sanitizer, masks, express needs, get matched up with needs. And that still lives at http://miraclemessages.org/items, where if you have extra supply of something, you can donate it, you can claim items, you can express a need. 

To your question though about hand sanitizer and procuring larger supply, it became very quickly apparent that just the numbers were so much greater on the demand side than the supply side. The little 4 oz. 8 oz. containers of hand sanitizer, the extra thing of Lysol wipes, versus a shelter with 400 people, which is totally out of hand sanitizer. That’s where we started working with distilleries, trying to get them to produce sanitizer, get it shipped, delivered, coordinating the dots. In times of crisis, there's a lot of confusion and misinformation. So we thought that one thing we can do is just play this--somewhat of a clarifying role is if you're in need of this, and you don't know where you're going to get it, it shouldn't be incumbent on you to do all this research and leg work to try to find it. We can try to connect those dots. And so I’ve been grateful that we've been able to play that role.

Tiffany Yu: That’s amazing. And if I haven't said it already, I'm so grateful for your leadership. Many of us have been talking about how the ability to shelter in place is really rooted in privilege and the fact that we do have the ability to do that. I wanted to ask you, so I'm just looking at an article, I don't know if the numbers are correct but it's talking about 5100 unsheltered individuals within San Francisco, almost 800 people on the waitlist... Have we been able to get a hold of social distancing for our unhoused community members?

Kevin Adler: No. And that’s a problem.

Tiffany Yu: Okay. And I think I have seen, and I don’t know if you’re a part of this, but I have seen Supervisor Dean Preston running a GoFundMe to try to book some empty hotel rooms.

Kevin Adler: And the City’s working on this. There’s various dynamics there between hotels, different departments trying to make this feasible to essentially get hundreds, if not thousands, of people experiencing homelessness into vacant hotel rooms immediately, which is what should happen. It’s needed, it's essential, they have to be housed in this emergency somewhere and hotels, motels make a ton of sense. So the first few hundred have started moving into hotels, in addition to individual efforts on GoFundMe by Supervisor Preston, and a lot more over the next week we're going to see being moved into hotels. And let’s remember for a second, as we all know that these folks need to be housed somewhere. I think that's the increasing consensus that you can just leave people on the streets. That’s not only immoral, but it's going to create and exacerbate this public health crisis. It’s going to elongate the curve, and it's going to be a huge cost on our hospitals, which are already way over taxed as people on the streets use the hospital's emergency rooms as waiting rooms in the best of times. The consensus is there, but we should remember that this isn't a problem specific and exclusive to San Francisco, LA, San Diego, Seattle, New York--all these communities--South Florida, they’re all either experiencing or will soon be experiencing this massive need to shelter people on the street. So the question then becomes, “What are they going to do? How are they going to do it? And then what comes next?” You get them into the hotels for a couple months. I think Gavin Newsom, the Governor of California, has now announced this program to get people into hotels for 3 months. But what then? To me, this is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to really get to the underlying needs of housing people and not transitioning people in 3 months from hotels to back to the streets.

Tiffany Yu: Have you seen examples of any place that’s doing it right right now?

Kevin Adler: Well right now in different ways--it's right when a couple hundred people get into a hotel room, it's right when the City is working with private organizations, companies, non-profits like us to procure supply in referring to partners that they otherwise normally wouldn't. It's right when distilleries are working with the FDA to loosen compliance restrictions on production and are able to start mass-producing and manufacturing hand sanitizer. So I think there’s a lot of bright spots for sure and there’s a lot of hope in what I'm referring to as “the homeless front” of COVID-19. We need to mobilize “the home front,” we always think of that from World War II. There's a homeless front that needs to be mobilized. I’ve written an Op-Ed on this that’s going to be coming out in the next few weeks. So I see a lot of examples of hope that I listed in that Op-Ed but the need and the pain and the challenge is so much greater than what's being done right now. So we have to step it up even more.

Tiffany Yu: Absolutely. And we’re totally living in unprecedented times where there isn't really a rule book. Just wanted to close the conversation by saying--for those of us who are sheltering in place, how can we help? And for those of us do have the ability to get out into the community, deliver things if needed, what does the extent of help look like?

Kevin Adler: Three very tangible things:

1) If you have a home to stay at, stay at it and know how fortunate you are to have a home that's safe.

Tiffany Yu: #StayHome.

Kevin Adler: 2) Let’s hold the government accountable on this. Now's the time to be pushing for people to get housed, into hotels, what are you doing for this? What kind of economic relief measures are you implementing for people who are unstably housed and at risk of homelessness after this, have lost their jobs? How are you helping people who are in emergency shelter situations or have to shelter in encampments to make sure they still get services? So keeping the government accountable, tweeting, petitions, awareness, having conversations like this, very important.

The third thing is really to be one of the most tangible as it relates to homelessness. Get involved with your local homeless nonprofits. People go to TheHomelessFront.org. It's a website that we are launching hopefully by the time of this show podcast publication, which is really the hub for all homeless related initiatives around COVID-19. Examples include coordinating supplies, getting involved as a buddy for people experiencing homelessness, donating your time, helping to locate loved ones, deliver messages, recording messages, answering hotline calls. So it’s stuff we’re doing at Micrable Messages, but it's also stuff we're uplifting from other grassroots initiatives around the country. So again, they can go to our website MiracleMessages.org or TheHomelessFront.org and get involved. And the final thing I’d just say is, I think it's so important right now for people to take a moment and realize that they fundamentally--all of us--we fundamentally see homelessness differently than the government does, and that's always been the case. The government sees homelessness fundamentally as a problem to be solved. We agree with that, there is a problem to be solved, but we also see the context that the government often misses. We hear the stories, we see the signs, we see the new RV's on our streets, we see people and we listen and we say, that’s someone's mom or dad, brother or sister, or someone's son or daughter. Essentially, we see homeless people, people experiencing homelessness, not as problems to be solved, but as people to be loved. And so if we carry that mindset at this time we're going to show up for them in the same way we're showing up right now for our elderly neighbors, our immunocompromised friends, and other vulnerable individuals maybe who have lost jobs that we care about. Suddenly we encompass people experiencing homelessness as part of what constitutes our community.

Tiffany Yu: Beautiful. And I know you’ve been hosting these Homelessness Task Force meetings. Those are still happening?

Kevin Adler: Mondays and Thursdays at 12 noon PT. Anyone who's interested in getting involved around this issue, they can call into our Task Force and again learn about that on our website. Fill out the “Get Involved” form and we will send you the info. And then we also have a briefing Mondays and Thursdays also around 2:30pm Pacific Time on Facebook where we do a Facebook Live and share updates of what's going on and ask questions of us.

Tiffany Yu: That’s great. One of the things that we are talking about within the disability community is what the world is going to look like after this pandemic. And a lot of us are very concerned and want to make sure that we have a seat at the table in terms of what this new world is going to look like. I wanted to ask you, and I'm sure it may be hard to take your head out of being on the frontlines right now, but what are you hoping we will learn from this that we can then bring forward as we work with our unhoused neighbors?

Kevin Adler: I’ll answer in two ways. So there's one that I could answer that I think probably anyone who's listening who has a half a brain and half a heart could probably answer it as much as I could which is, let’s house the homeless, let’s care about them, let’s support organizations that work with them, let’s not allow the status quo to be returned, all of that. 

The thing that I’d probably emphasize that maybe is a unique or important perspective I haven't heard is, in a time of disaster, there's various phases to the disaster. There's the initial event itself, and then there's this initial response and relief work, and then there's this longer recovery work. Those are general phases but those phases begin and end at different times for different communities. And so what will happen is there'll be a moment very soon where we may say, all clear, and we're going back to our normal life. Or we say, “hey now we're looking at post-disaster, let’s reflect, let’s rebuild, let’s be better together.” Fundamentally, if you're truly wanting to be in solidarity with a population that you care about, it's almost offensive to be having a conversation like that while people are still suffering, dying, and in the midst of their traumatic experience of the disaster. Before we start looking at the future world on homelessness, we need to zero in on what's happening right now, be adjacent to, proximate to, in solidarity with our neighbors on the streets, and do whatever we can to live those values that will inform what we want to happen a year or two years down the line. 

Tiffany Yu: Thank you, thank you for that. I do want to know, what are you doing to take care of yourself?

Kevin Adler: I’m in probably the best shape I've been in in like years. I do yoga every morning, suddenly I don't need a yoga class at the studio to do it. I just put on YouTube, so doing that. I’ve been getting 15,000 steps in a day. I journal every single day, I haven't missed a day of just capturing my thoughts, reflection. I do have morning Bible study. As a Christian, it's important for me to stay rooted in the word and you know and have that kind of help guide my day. And then just eating healthy and making sure I have at least one or two conversations with friends and colleagues. And this is the real fun answer--I gave you all the, “oh, that’s so nice Kevin, thanks for that.” Here’s the fun one. I love Spanish and I lived in Mexico for a year. But it’s hard to stay fluent when you don’t have all that many friends that are native speakers, just talk in English all the time. So I’ve always been wondering, just how can I stay fluent with Spanish? I love it, I'm losing the language. I’m not as advanced as I was before. And I realize, like when I/m eating a meal, I'm kind of just searching on YouTube for different videos, or reading articles. I need something else. I started watching telenovelas, Mexican soap operas. And what I do is I put the subtitles on in Spanish and the dialogue is in Spanish. And if I need to, what I’m doing is pausing it like every 3 minutes, writing down what they just said, and then putting it into a translate box if I don't know the words. Essentially, I’m doing more Spanish studies in 10 years since I lived in Mexico by watching these ridiculous telenovelas while I eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner if I'm not doing like a phone call. It’s so fun. So I'm really wrapped up in some of these shows right now.

Tiffany Yu: I love it and I can feel your energy and excitement around it. That’s actually how I taught myself Mandarin way back when I was still in college and wanted to keep it up. I know you've provided the links to MiracleMessages.org and some of the other initiatives you’re working on. Are there any other sites or social media you’d like our listeners to follow you on?

Kevin Adler: MiracleMessages.org or you can go on Facebook. We’re pretty active on there, just search “Miracle Messages.” Please be in touch. You're needed right now, we need you and more importantly your neighbors need you to show up for them right now. 

Tiffany Yu: Thanks so much Kevin and thanks for being on our show.

Kevin Adler: My pleasure, Tiffany & Yu, Tiffany & Kevin signing off.

[outro] Tiffany Yu: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Tiffany & Yu. This is your host Tiffany Yu. My ultimate hope is that we can co-create something beautiful together, so if you have feedback or suggestions on topics you’d like us to explore, I'd love to hear from you. This podcast now has its own Instagram handle @tiffanyandyu. And you can also find me across social media at @imtiffanyyu. That’s the letter “I”, the letter “M”, followed by my first and last name. We’re hoping to drop episodes every Tuesday so I hope you'll join us for the next episode. And a special thank you to RootHub for my opening and closing podcast medley.

[Closing Medley by RootHub]

Tiffany Yu
Previous

005: Tiffany & Marcela
Next

003: Tiffany & Kasley