003: Tiffany & Kasley
In this episode, we're chatting with Kasley Killam, MPH Candidate at the Harvard School of Public Health, on all things social health and staying socially connected in a time of physical distancing.
We discussed:
How Kasley became interested in social health after learning about the rise of social isolation and the loneliness epidemic
What social health is and how it's different from mental health
How social isolation is different from loneliness
Why "social distancing" really means physical distancing
Kasley's tips on developing socially healthy digital habits
Tip #1: opt for video
Tip #2: one-minute kindness
Tip #3: taking stock of your own social health and deepening or broadening your network
The importance of self-care
What she's hoping we learn about our social well-being as a result of this pandemic
SHOW NOTES
Stanford professor Jamil Zaki on “distant socializing”: https://news.stanford.edu/2020/03/19/try-distant-socializing-instead/
Kasley Killam’s piece “How to Prevent Loneliness in a Time of Social Distancing” in Scientific American: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-prevent-loneliness-in-a-time-of-social-distancing/
ABOUT KASLEY KILLAM
Kasley Killam is a master’s candidate at the Harvard School of Public Health focused on promoting social health and well-being. As a member of the World Economic Forum Global Shapers community, a nonprofit board member in San Francisco, and an AARP Task Force member in Massachusetts, she works to address isolation among older adults and foster intergenerational connection. Previously, Kasley led community engagement and partnerships at Verily (Google Life Sciences), conducted research on mental health and positive psychology, and created an award-winning digital campaign to promote empathy and compassion.
FOLLOW KASLEY
Twitter: https://twitter.com/KasleyKillam
Website: http://kasleykillam.com/
TRANSCRIPT
[Opening Medley by RootHub]
Tiffany Yu: Hi everyone, it’s Tiffany, and thanks for joining me on this episode of Tiffany & Yu. Today we have social health expert and my friend Kasley Killam. Hi Kasley!
Kasley Killam: Hi Tiffany! Thank you for having me.
Tiffany Yu: Of course. I always like to include a little tidbit on how me and my guest met. And so Kasley and I met through a community that we're both part of called the Global Shapers, and it's a community of people in their twenties and early thirties who are passionate about social impact. And fun fact, I was actually one of Kasley's reviewers of her application. And as part of the Global Shapers, Kasley has actually done a handful of different projects around tackling loneliness between -- or tackling loneliness in older adults and a lot of great programming around that.
Kasley Killam: Thank you. I actually didn't know that you were one of the people who reviewed my application, so thanks so much Tiffany.
Tiffany Yu: I think you mentioned in your application that you were also a musician?
Kasley Killam: Yes, I do play guitar and sing from time to time.
Tiffany Yu: I love it. I figured we would start by getting a little more background on you. I know you’re getting your Master’s Degree right now. But would love to learn a little more about your background and what got you interested in social health.
Kasley Killam: Absolutely. I have always been interested in human connection. I was born and raised in Vancouver, Canada and then from there, I lived in 9 cities across 3 different countries. Every time I moved to a new place, I found myself having to build a community, and make new friends, and get settled into this new environment. And what I experienced was that, in places where it was really easy for me to -- it happened naturally that I was able to develop a strong community and get socially connected, I was much happier, I felt healthier, I was more productive. It was just such a more positive experience and I was able to function better but also to really flourish. Compared to places where I felt a little lonelier or it was harder for me to find my tribe. And so that theme was something that I experienced personally living in different places and it’s also something that has been woven into all my professional work. So I started out doing research on mental health and positive psychology. Through that I really got to understand some of the studies around how relationships are for wellbeing. And then about 5 years ago, research started coming out showing that loneliness and social isolation were starting to rise in the United States as well as other countries. People were starting to call it an epidemic. Depending on what study you look at, anywhere from around 20% to 60% of American adults experience loneliness on a regular basis. And if you are chronically lonely, you’re more likely to develop depression, cardiovascular disease, you will more likely have a stroke, or slip into cognitive decline, you recover from illness more slowly, you die earlier. There are so many health associations with being lonely. Given my background and interest in human connection in general, I became really interested in creating solutions for this. As you mentioned, I did some projects as part of the Global Shapers Community. I hosted a panel where we spoke with different nonprofits in the Bay Area who were working on this issue among older adults. We talked about different solutions there. I hosted an intergenerational friendship event, where we brought together 15 Millennials and 15 seniors and guided them through an interactive experience to help them connect across ages. And ultimately it just culminated in me deciding to leave my job in San Francisco and go back to school. As you mentioned, I’m now getting my Master’s. I’m at the Harvard School of Public Health and my speciality and area of focus and passion is around social health and social wellbeing.
Tiffany Yu: I love that and I actually think what's really interesting is that--oftentimes when we talk about our overall well-being--I’ve done some research on what our overall well-being actually looks like and it’s at the intersection of your physical health, your social health, and your mental health. And all of those, because they are intertwined, will impact each other, right. So as you were talking before about, if you are feeling lonely, it will have cardiovascular effects, it will have mental health effects. We have had an earlier episode around mental health and so I actually thought honing in on definitions would be really helpful here. So what exactly is social health and how is it different from mental health?
Kasley Killam: Great question. To your point, if we step back for a second and think holistically about health, like you said, there’s physical health, that’s to do with our body. And some of the ways that we improve that are exercise, sleeping, or eating healthy foods. There’s mental health and that’s really about our emotions and maybe you improve your mental health through meditation, therapy, or things like that. And then there’s social health. And that’s really about our relationships. And some of you improve that are FaceTiming your friends, or joining a bookclub, or getting involved in your community. I think there are other dimensions of health too. We could talk about spiritual health or financial health or environmental health. There are so many factors that influence our ability to thrive as human beings. But being socially healthy really means feeling connected to others, maintaining strong relationships, giving and receiving support, and having a sense of community. And I think it's important to note that what this looks like for everyone is different right. Some people like to exercise by doing yoga or lifting weights. It's the same with social health, so we were chatting earlier, Tiffany, about being introverts and being quarantined during this time. For me as an introvert, being socially healthy means balancing solitude and socializing right. Or it also means having more meaningful conversations rather than many superficial interactions. Those are the sorts of the ingredients for me personally to feel like I’m thriving socially. You also mentioned the distinction with mental health. I think it’s important to think of social health as a separar dimension because of how huge of an impact it has on our health and well-being. So just to give you one example, a few years back, Julianne Holt-Lunstad who is an amazing researcher at Brigham Young University did this meta-analysis and she looked at a variety of different studies on the connection between social relationships and a risk of mortality. And what she found was that people with strong social relationships had a 50% increased likelihood of survival. And when she compared that to things like smoking cigarettes or consuming alcohol or not exercising or being obese, things like that we typically think of when we think about worsening our health, she found that having strong social relationships was comparable and sometimes even worse than those more traditional factors. In other words, loneliness is really really bad for our health. Social relationships play such a huge role in our ability to thrive so I think it’s really valuable to think about it as a separate dimension so that we can invest in it and really prioritize it.
Tiffany Yu: I love the way that you mention, similar to doing yoga or lifting weights, there different ways to--there different ways to practice social health, right? I think actually with you saying it out loud it's making me realize, I actually do really appreciate the one-on-one FaceTime conversations that I’ve been having now during this time of quarantine but I'm not really enjoying the massive 25 person gatherings. Both of those are tapping into relationships and building relationships, but in different ways, and so for each person they will find what works for them. I think even for me, learning more about your work and your work specifically in social health, it's gotten me looking at the work I do within Diversability through the social health lens as well. So how important is it for our disabled community members to be rooted in community, building relationships? How can we find different ways for them to do that, whether it's connecting with older disability advocates with younger disability advocates and other ways like that? Thank you for doing that for me.
Kasley Killam: Community builders like you just have such a vital role in our society and I think given the rise in loneliness and given now the situation of so many people being isolated in their homes, we need community builders now more than ever, so thank you for the work you do.
Tiffany Yu: Thank you. It’s interesting because you’ve been mentioning, there's a loneliness epidemic on the rise, I've been hearing the term social isolation. Sometimes I hear them used interchangeably, I believe there's a difference in the two right?
Kasley Killam: This is a great thing to bring up. So social isolation is objective right? If you are physically isolated, alone in your home like we all are right now due to coronavirus, that is an objective thing. You can measure that, you can say, yes someone is isolated by themselves. This is something that in some of the work I’ve done, is a big issue for older adults or adults with disabilities who may have physical limitations to leaving their homes and that puts them at risk for certain health outcomes. Now loneliness, in contrast is subjective so it’s how you feel. You can feel lonely in a room full of people. You can feel not lonely when you’re by yourself. Loneliness is very much subjective, and there are tools to measure it as well. There are different validated surveys that researchers use and some exciting neuroscience research and all different things like that looking at some of the underlying factors there. But the key difference here is social isolation is objective whereas loneliness is subjective.
Tiffany Yu: So would you say that right now, given that all of us are kind of on this global quarantine, we are isolated.
Kasley Killam: Absolutely.
Tiffany Yu: I saw a little video on social media the other day where someone was talking about how we need to reframe this whole idea of isolation instead of “being in solitude.” It actually got me thinking a lot about some of the travel adventures that I've had recently, where even though it's a group trip, I had very much viewed it as a solo adventure because I'm the only one that's hiking the mountain or I’m the only one -- so I have noticed in my own frame of thinking that viewing things more from a “this is a solo thing” rather than a “I'm feeling lonely right now.” So as you know, and as all of us know, we're kind of in this period that they’re calling “social distancing.” And I wanted to read something to you that I saw on social media. It was a graphic that said it's very unclear when people say “practice social distancing” because it's a new term, it's not specific, and it's not conceptual. But what might be more clear is “stay-at-home, get groceries once per week” because then we’re using known words, we’re being clear, we’re specific, we're concrete.” I just wanted to get your view on, why are they calling it “social distancing.” It's the first time many of us have heard this, rather than what it actually is, which to me is physical distancing.
Kasley Killam: That's such a great point to bring up. I believe that the origins of the term “social distancing” are in public health. One of the ways to limit transmission of infectious diseases in public health terminology, I believe, is social distancing. So you can think of way back in the time when leprosy was a huge issue, there were leper colonies, because back then, they didn’t know enough about germs, or how things were transmitted, but they had figured out that basically person to person contact was spreading leprosy. And so they had colonies where people were social distanced and they were basically left to go live with each other for the rest of their lives so that they wouldn’t infect other people. So I believe the origins of that term as in public health. However, I completely agree. I think it would be much better to call it physical distancing. Actually, Jamil Zaki, who is a professor at Stanford, came out with a piece recently, distinguishing between how instead of social distancing, we should be doing distant socializing. And I really liked that way of thinking about it too because unlike leper colonies, where you had your disease and you were banished from society for the rest of your life, we have technology and we can connect with one another. And so while we are physically distant, we really should be as socially connected as ever before. And we’re in a unique place where we can FaceTime friends and family around the world and there are many ways for us to get in touch with one another. It’s a really important distinction, it kind of semantics. I don't know how these terms come up but I think what this is about is physical distancing and while we’re doing that, let’s make sure that we’re staying socially connected.
Tiffany Yu: I think I had heard somewhere that social distancing was one of these public health terms that was used to compare it to quarantine which is not actually not being in the vicinity of any other people. But I want to come back because I know we're in the middle of this social distancing period. It is having an impact on people's mental health. I am seeing it potentially have an impact on people's social health as well, so when we come back after the break, we're going to chat more with Kasley about some tips that she has to keep socially connected through this time.
[ad]
Tiffany Yu: Hi everyone, you’re back with Tiffany. I’m chatting with our social health expert Kasley Killam. You may have seen that a couple of weeks ago, we launched this podcast with my psychotherapist friend Gina Moffa chatting about all things mental health related to COVID-19. Now we have Kasley on, chatting all things social health. Hey Kasley!
Kasley Killam: Hey Tiffany!
Tiffany Yu: So before the break, we were kind of chatting about terminology. Physical distancing doesn't mean being socially distant. Would love to hear a little bit more about your tips about how to stay socially connected during this time.
Kasley Killam: Absolutely. So a couple weeks ago, I came out with an article in Scientific American called, “How to Prevent Loneliness in a Time of Social Distancing.” I wish it was called in the time of physical distancing but that’s ok.
Tiffany Yu: Or maybe your next article will be why social distancing should be called physical distancing.
Kasley Killam: Exactly. So many people in the field, including myself, were really worried at first that physical distancing would exacerbate the loneliness epidemic. And so in this article, I wanted to highlight some ways that we can use this time to actually improve our relationships and develop what I call “ socially healthy digital habits.” Technology is often something to blame for the rise in loneliness. And certainly there’s some evidence to support that, but right now in times like this, it’s really our only option and the one way that we have to ensure we’re staying in close contact to friends and family and neighbors and loved ones. And so in the article, I go through a few different recommendations for how you can practice socially healthy digital habits.
Tiffany Yu: Say that five times fast.
Kasley Killam: So I make a few recommendations. This is really an opportunity for us to practice using technology in healthy ways. So many of us just find ourselves scrolling endlessly through social media, we’re reading headlines, and not engaging in meaningful ways. I wanted to provide some suggestions for how we can use that to connect more deeply. I’ll just share three, I think there were five in the article but I’ll share a few of them and you can check out the article if you want to read more. The first one was around, face to face from afar. So this was the idea that--in my opinion, the ideal is in person human connection. It’s just the best, you’re getting facial cues, you’re getting body language, you’re getting physical touch. There are so many things like that are really important for communication and for bonding. And so my recommendation here was to opt for video whenever you can. Phone calls and text messages and things like that are fine, but if at all possible, at least once a day, have a video chat with someone so that you’re still seeing people and you're picking up on those nonverbal cues and you’re making it feel real. I think it’s cool to see some of the ways people are doing this. Later tonight, I’m having a double date with some friends where we’re all going to cook together from our different places. Things like that can be really fun.
Tiffany Yu: I’m just going to chime in here. I think what's been interesting about this whole process is that I've actually normally been really uncomfortable with video, but now with all of these Zoom calls, I’m actually re-emerging and like doing video dates and FaceTiming friends. I'm actually finding because now the new norm is video--I actually love this tip because I'm so used to just texting or sending a WhatsApp message or sending an email, and then my friends will actually respond with a FaceTime call, and more often than not I'll pick up. Being able to connect in that way, it’s made me a lot more comfortable with that type of communication.
Kasley Killam: I had a big family Zoom call for the first time ever. And we’ve been living in different cities for many years. I don't know why we’ve never done it before, but for some reason, it took this situation for us to say, “hey this is a thing we can do and we can all see each other and have this really fun evening.” It’s making us comfortable with video interactions and different ways of connecting that we’re not normally used to.
So a second recommendation was around one-minute kindness. So I mentioned earlier that we all know how it feels to scroll endlessly through our newsfeeds. Or you post something on social media and you feel a fleeting hit of dopamine. But my suggestion here is to really pause when you find yourself in that situation, and instead reach out to one of the people whose posts you’re reading and send them a few kind words. Send them a compliment, tell them something you appreciate about them. It can literally take one minute and that connection is so much more powerful than liking their post or continuing to just scroll through mindlessly. It feels good for you as the giver to reach out in that way, to spend time thinking about this person who you care about, and it also feels good to them. It feels much better to them than getting a lot of likes because it’s just longer-lasting, it builds your relationship, things like that. So one minute kindness is the second recommendation.
Tiffany Yu: I love that. Gina and I chatted a little bit about how, when everyone is collectively feeling higher levels of stress and anxiety and overwhelm, it's easy for us to be kind of jerky.
Kasley Killam: Totally.
Tiffany Yu: And so by spreading this kindness, which I love, sending someone a direct message, sending them a nice note, and sending a text to someone you haven't been in touch with in awhile. We need to combat all the stress and the jerky things with being way nicer.
Kasley Killam: Exactly. Now is the time to be practicing empathy and compassion and kindness. The point I wanted to make in this article was it doesn’t have to be this drawn out big thing, it can literally just take you one minute. Text something nice to someone in your network, that’s it. It’s so simple to be kind. And of course there are many ways that you can deepen that and go further. But the point is that instead of just scrolling endlessly and feeling detached from people, do something kind. Simple.
Tiffany Yu: I will add one other thing that happened is that one of my friends Caroline posted on Facebook that she was going to mail love notes to have whoever wanted one. And so I sent her my address, and yesterday I got her note and it was so beautiful. Handwritten, snail mail, DIY, these little things--and then I had actually done the same and posted on my Facebook page that I would mail out cards to whoever wanted one, so that is still on my “to do” list. That is not one minute kindness but maybe 10 minute kindness. One of the exercises that I did a couple of years ago was, I wanted to mail at one of these like gratitude cards or one of these love letters to someone every single week. And so what I did at the beginning of the year, was I sat down and I thought through 52 people that I'd want to mail cards to. And even just the act of writing down that list, just made me feel all the warm and fuzzies.
Kasley Killam: I’m going to send you my address after this call-- So a third tip and I'll leave it at that was around deepening or broadening. So I was suggesting in the article that people take a moment to reflect on their relationships and their current state of social health and think about whether right now you feel like you need to make new relationships or you need to nurture your existing relationships, or maybe both. And basically the recommendation is to take one digital action to either depend or broaden. So get in touch with a friend or family member you haven't spoken with in awhile, or reach out to someone brand new who you’d like to get to know. And it can be super simple but also taking the time to reflect on your current state of social health is really valuable and then recognizing from there, what are the actions you need to take to improve it.
Tiffany Yu: The coolest thing, you and I are both part of this really global community called the Global Shapers, is that, because all of this is happening digitally, perhaps the person you're connecting with isn't necessarily also in the same city or in the same country. They could be in a totally different part of the world.
Kasley Killam: Absolutely. That's why we need these socially healthy digital habits, right. We need to be using technology in ways that can help us connect more meaningfully with the people around the world who are in our network.
Tiffany Yu: What do you think is the the fine line here? There was a period of time at the beginning of this quarantine--we're just about finishing week two here in San Francisco--where all across social media, it’s like, I'm going to take all these new classes, and I'm going to learn this language, and launch this new project. And in my mind I'm like, “Oh, do I need to be doing all those things too?” And so there still is this level of social comparison that's happening digitally, so where do you find that fine line between being connected versus sitting in a place of despair?
Kasley Killam: It’s such a good question. The role of self-care here is really important. We all need to cut ourselves a little bit of slack and recognize that this is new, we’re dealing with the stress and uncertainty of this in different ways, it’s going to ebb and flow, our emotions are going to ebb and flow. Maintaining your social health or your mental health shouldn’t feel like a burden. It's really about assessing, “Am I feeling lonely or am I okay? Do I need to reach out to people right now or can I just shut everything off and spend some time in solitude and enjoy that?” which is equally as important. So I think you raised a really good point. I just hope that everyone can take this time to check in with themselves and see how they’re feeling and just listen to what their needs are.
Tiffany Yu: I think a lot of the conversations I've been having with friends are really around how they're adapting their physical fitness of like--someone put their ski boots in a backpack and is using that for weights. Again when you think about our overall well-being, the same way we’re investing in and adapting our physical health, are we doing that the same way for our social health and our mental health. And that's why I love those three tips that you gave because we do need to adapt our social health right now. I came across this article in HBR, also related to my conversation with Gina, around how we're all kind of experiencing this collective grief right now. And Gina is a mental health expert, chatting with Gina, I think for someone like me--I've lost a parent, I have been through my grief journey--to see everyone kind of going through it at the same time I’m hoping will destigmatize grief and our experience of it in a way. I'm curious what you're hoping we learn from this from a social health perspective.
Kasley Killam: I love that. I’m hoping there are two things we can take from this. One is that, to your point about destigmatizing grief, I hope that we can have greater empathy for people who experience chronic social isolation and loneliness on a regular basis. Because right now we’re all confronted with quarantines and social distancing for the first time and this is a new experience and we’re feeling the repercussions of that. But there are many people who, this is their normal state. They are isolated or even if they are not isolated, they are lonely on a regular basis. So I hope that we can have greater empathy for them and de-stigmatize that. Because it's a normal human experience, we all feel it at certain times, and it deserves solutions and it deserves kindness and compassion. The second thing I hope that we’ll learn from this is collectively recognizing how important social well-being is. I really hope that as a result of this experience, we will recognize how important our relationships are to us and really appreciate and prioritize and invest in them moving forward, because I think this is forcing us to think about this a lot more, but it is also forcing us to create habits around it. And to create new norms about the way that we connect. And my hope is that, those habits of social well-being will carry on long after the pandemic has ended and evolve and grow in different ways once we can be back together in person. But hopefully that sense of importance that we are getting now around our relationships will continue on long after this is over.
Tiffany Yu: Your answer to that was actually different than what I thought you were going to say.
Kasley Killam: What did you think I was going to say?
Tiffany Yu: When we talked about extraversion and introversion, there is a misconception that people who are introverted just want to be alone. But a part of it is just the depth of the conversation, or the number of people are involved, or what activity is, and so what I'm learning from this is, I'm learning what for me is beneficial for my social health. Because now most of the distractions are taken out of this context and I'm forced with like, “okay I want to be socially connected, what's the best”--and Gina talked a lot about survival care. Now we just need to figure out what we need to do from a fundamental level just to survive through this, which is, “what do I need at a baseline that's going to give me that energy to be socially connected.” But I loved your answer because there are a lot of people within the disability community who are very socially isolated and likely a lot of older adults as well. And I know a lot of my friends and a lot of our community members are writing pieces and very visible in the digital space around how this isn't a new experience for us--for people within the disability community. And we're hoping for some empathy or to actually view our community not only as the vulnerable population but maybe the ones who have a little bit more expertise abou how to navigate through these types of situations.
Kasley Killam: Absolutely, I love that.
Tiffany Yu: Awesome, I loved this whole conversation. So now you're in the process of finishing up your Masters, what is next for you?
Kasley Killam: I’m really excited to start putting all the strategies that I've been learning and formulating during my degree into practice, and one of the ways that I’m starting to do that right now is that I just recently joined the AARP’s task force to end social isolation and loneliness among seniors in Massachusetts. And I'm really excited to think with them about how to do that at the state level and create programs and campaigns and things like that at level of intervention. Really excited about all the partners who are coming together within that task force. But other ways, you will have to stay tuned. I've got tons of ideas, I'm so excited about everything I’ve been learning and how I can bring it all together and really create solutions for this at all different levels. So you will have to stay tuned, Tiffany.
Tiffany Yu: What's the best way for all of our listeners to stay tuned with you?
Kasley Killam: You can follow me on Twitter. My handle is @KasleyKillam. You follow me on Instagram. My handle is @killam.with.kindness. And you can also just read my articles or get in touch with me on my website at KasleyKillam.com.
Tiffany Yu: Awesome, thanks so much Kasley for being on our show!
[outro] Tiffany Yu: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Tiffany & Yu. This is your host Tiffany Yu. My ultimate hope is that we can co-create something beautiful together, so if you have feedback or suggestions on topics you’d like us to explore, I'd love to hear from you. This podcast now has its own Instagram handle @tiffanyandyu. And you can also find me across social media at @imtiffanyyu. That’s the letter “I”, the letter “M”, followed by my first and last name. We’re hoping to drop episodes every Tuesday so I hope you'll join us for the next episode. And a special thank you to RootHub for my opening and closing podcast medley.
[Closing Medley by RootHub]