013: Tiffany & Haley

Written By Tiffany Yu

Tiffany & Haley | Building Your Personal Brand Empire ft. Haley Hoffman Smith (Her Big Idea)

Listen on: Apple // Spotify // Google

In this episode, we’re joined by Haley Hoffman Smith, author of Her Big Idea, to chat about how vulnerability and being your authentic self are the keys to building your personal brand.

We discussed:

  • Haley’s BIG projects (and baked potatoes!)

  • Start building your personal brand by being vulnerable

  • Building credibility through visibility and press

  • Why all press is not good press

  • Creating products and services aligned with your brand

Show notes

About Haley Hoffman Smith

Haley Hoffman Smith is a professional speaker who was recently named one of today’s most influential speakers by Forbes. She is the founder of Your BIG PR, a publicity company aimed specifically towards entrepreneurs and creators, and the author of Her Big Idea, a book on creativity, ideation, and women's empowerment which debuted as a Top 3 Bestseller in Women & Business and was named a must-read by the Tory Burch Foundation.  A recent Phi Beta Kappa graduate of Brown University (2018), she wrote her honors thesis on how women develop their sense of self agency in entrepreneurship and venture capital. She is the founder of the Her Big Idea Fund in partnership with Brown University's Nelson Center for Entrepreneurship, which awards grants to women who apply with BIG ideas. 

She has spoken at places like Harvard, Yale, Microsoft, SoGal Ventures, Columbia, and more, and has taken the TEDx stage twice. Haley has been featured in Forbes, Entrepreneur, Business Insider, Yahoo Finance, U.S. News and World Report, Washington Examiner,  and more, and resides in NYC, where she is a signed actress, host, and model. Tune into her weekly podcast, Big Conversations, which releases every Tuesday at noon. 

Follow Haley Hoffman Smith

Transcript

Tiffany Yu: You’re listening to Tiffany & Yu, the podcast. This is Tiffany Yu. On this episode, I’m joined by Haley Hoffman Smith, author of Her Big Idea, which was recently named one of the Top 20 books to read during lockdown to inspire and change your life. Haley’s work is all around inspiring people step into the biggest version of themselves.During a time when everyone is creating content, we’ll be chatting with Haley about finding your authentic voice, sharing your message with the world, and aligning what you’re doing with who you are.

Tiffany Yu: Hi everyone. It's Tiffany here and you're tuning into Tiffany & Yu. Today. I have with me Haley Hoffman Smith. Hi Haley!. 

Haley Hoffman Smith: Hi. 

Tiffany Yu: So Haley and I met because she was writing a book while she was still a student at Brown University called Her Big Idea, which was focused on creativity, ideation, innovation for women. You and I had a telephone conversation. How many years ago was that? 

Haley Hoffman Smith: Oh, gosh, I guess two. 

Tiffany Yu: Two years ago, the book came out to much fanfare, top 3 bestseller in Women & Business, named a must-read by the Tory Burch Foundation.  Would love to hear more about all of the things that you're working on these days. 

Haley Hoffman Smith: Sure. Yeah. And I was so honored to meet you throughout that book writing process. I was so inspired by your story and that was part of the best part of writing the book was getting to meet all the women in Dreamers // Doers, and it's inspiring female entrepreneurs. I'm so excited to be here in your podcast. So I've had a busy few years since I graduated college, I graduated May 2018. And after I graduated and the book came out, which was like, literally three weeks after my graduation day, I started a speaking tour for the book. So book was called Her Big Idea. I called the speaking tour, Your Big Idea. And my intention was to inspire a thousand new, big ideas or action on big ideas in the 2018-2019 school year for college students. So I started speaking for my first time. I went from being someone who was standing up in front of my academic advisors at the end of my senior year with my hands shaking, reading off a piece of paper about my senior presentation to getting the bravery to stand in front of audiences of 300 students and inspire them to go after their big ideas because that's what I feel like is my purpose in life, helping people go after their ideas and desires and believing that they are given to them for a reason. Then I was working for a startup, which I loved. It was a great experience, but I ultimately felt called to do my own thing, especially because speaking was picking up. I was starting a lash line with a lash company called Her Big Lash because I love false eyelashes. So I broke off and did my own thing. And since then, it's definitely been a developmental phase of learning what I really like, what really lights me on fire. And I've settled at least for this phase of my life in to helping entrepreneurs and creators land PR, and also helping them get exposure and credibility, not only from press, but from personal branding, from speaking and on social media in the way that I've learned to do. So I've been busy for sure.

Tiffany Yu: I know you mentioned it briefly, but you and I met through a group called Dreamers and Doers. It's a group founded by Gesche Haas to help create more women led ventures, which is very in line with your mission statement as well. So I'll include a link to that. And then these days you actually do run your own Facebook community called Big Exposure, tied to all of the work you're doing around helping get more exposure for women entrepreneurs.

Haley Hoffman Smith: Yes. 

Tiffany Yu: And then you didn't even mention you have this awesome email list and a podcast. So there's way more to the brand there.  I wanted to just dig into , what was your own journey of honing in on what your personal brand is? Just want to hear how you went about doing that with all the writing you're doing, speaking about entrepreneurship, Her Big Lash.  How does it all fit together? 

Haley Hoffman Smith: Yeah, that's a great question. And I always like to tell people that a personal brand isn't something that you sit down and like create and strategize. It's not like you get with a white board and you're like, what should my personal brand be? I think it's rather an expression of who you already are, but maybe packaged in a more thoughtful way. So at first it was really accidental. I really loved the word big. I didn't know why. I honestly didn't know if it was from Sex and the City when she calls the love of her life Big, but I've always been drawn to that word. And it's also funny, I worked with an EFT practitioner and she said once, and she didn't even know, she doesn't know any of my business stuff. We're just like, you know, meet in a subconscious programming setting, but she's like, you know what I think of you. I always think of the word big and it's just my word. I think we should just live big lives, have big ideas, go after big dreams, like step into the bigger version of ourselves. And so I really just use that word to guide the naming of my book. But there was also another element to that. So I was researching at Brown for my honors thesis why so few women receive VC funding and I was on a call with this managing partner from one of the big prestigious VC firms. I won't say which one. And I basically asked him, why is it that 2% of VC spending went to female founders last year in 2017 at the time? And he said that women simply don't come up with ideas that necessitate millions of dollars in funding, i.e., they don't come up with big enough ideas. So that's why I called the book, Her Big Idea. And then it just became, you know, big went beyond just, Oh, an idea that needs millions of dollars in funding to sometimes a big idea to you is like smaller than what a VC would think is a big idea to them. But it's big to you because it gets you out of your comfort zone in the pursuit of it. And then the lash company when that happened. There's a cool story about it. I won't get into the whole story, but it's in my Ted talk if someone wants to look at my Ted talk, but I was basically offered to start my own lash line through lash company when I was at a speaking engagement. And then I thought I should totally name it, Her Big Lash because it's her big idea and the lashes are really big and bold. And I usually wear a really big and bold makeup. And then of course the, Her Big Idea Fund was related. And then just big, just kind of took on a life of its own as far as my business stuff. Big Exposure, Big PR. But as far as my own personal brand is like Haley Hoffman Smith. I think that your personal brand comes down to two elements. The first of which is that purpose part. So for my purpose, it's like helping people step into that big version of themselves. But the second part is personality. And personality is more lethal so to speak. Like personality is what makes  people stay because a lot of people will share your purpose. And I have always just been really out there. Like I've always been very on social media sharing who I am sharing parts of my life. And I just found that there were a little aspects of myself that stuck with people. One was now what I call the baked potato principle, where I posted about how much I love baked potatoes one night. And now everybody sends me pictures of baked potatoes. I've like leaned into that. It sounds so weird like this is where I, like, I would never strategize that for myself, but it was very authentic because like, favorite food. A school actually posted a picture of baked potatoes to announce that I was coming to speak. Like it's gotten kind of out of hand, but I think that when you're in the complete unencumbered, authentic expression of who you are, and you're sharing the bits of your personality like that, even if you don't think it's going to be relevant to other people, like people can tell that you're showing up to them in this intimate and vulnerable way, even if it's funny things like baked potatoes, but that's what makes people feel like they know you, which is why I think I've been able to inspire and connect with people beyond who I've met in person just because I show up like that on social media. And then I also bring in my purpose so heavily with this very branded big part of all the different businesses and initiatives. 

Tiffany Yu: I love it. And fun fact, you and I have actually never met.

Haley Hoffman Smith: I was just thinking that, as I said, it it's wild and I feel like I know you. 

Tiffany Yu: I know. And I wanted you to come on this podcast more selfishly for my own learning as well. Part of how I've built my own brand is through leading with vulnerability. I actually didn't know about the potatoes. 

Haley Hoffman Smith: Oh my gosh. Yeah. I even, I give a personal branding talk and I have this whole page of screenshots of all the people sending me baked potatoes or baked potato related things that I, that I share in my slides . 

Tiffany Yu: What I think is so important is the fact that all of us have a brand that we're building no matter how small or big it is. And we are influential in whatever circles we're in. And so I wanted to get your top three suggestions for our listeners who might be just starting to think about building their personal brand.

Haley Hoffman Smith: For sure. So I would say the first part is because-- given that my second part is going to be all about going out there and just getting exposure and visibility, you can't do that second part without the first, which is building a really sticky brand. And the way that you do that is a bit of what I had already said about just like sharing who you authentically are. And that makes some people a little bit uncomfortable because that does mean you're going to have to be vulnerable on social media or in any type of content that you create, but that vulnerability is what makes people trust you because it says I'm showing up as who I am. I'm not trying to sugarcoat anything or be something I'm not, or be like, look, I've got this all figured out. I'm a person just like you. Jess Ekstrom once said in her course called the Mic Drop Workshop, which is about speaking. And I learned so much about speaking from taking that course before I started my speaking tour, that the audience will go as deep with you as you go with them. So that's just about standing on stage, but I've taken that same principle to whenever I write an article or whenever I do a podcast episode. And I want people to know, even though it seems from the outset and from reading my bio, that I have a lot of things figured out and that I've accomplished a lot. I'm a person just like you, who's had to overcome a lot of limiting self beliefs. I'm still coping with a lot of them. And every person has that one thing, like, for me, it's big, but big is kind of like this counterpart to me feeling small for most of my life up until a certain point. So I think it's first identifying your core wounds. What is the number one thing that you've had to work through in your life that's been a huge theme for you for as long as you can remember? Maybe it's attached to memory, maybe it isn't. But what is it that you have decided your life is about overcoming? Because usually that's what you're trying to help other people do. I talk with a lot of people through my speaking coaching program, who, they share their own story, and then I also know what their mission is, and it's always a mirror image. What they want to help other people with, even if they haven't fully gotten to it themselves or solved it for themselves is some element of their own core wounds or that core theme. At first, it just takes a lot of self exploration and it can be messy at first. You don't have to have that all figured out before you start posting things or sharing your story. You figure out your brand as you go along and your brand also evolves because no person stays the same forever. My brand has evolved so much over the past few years is I figured out what I like, what I don't like. I put out a bunch of things that I was like, Ooh, I think now it's this, but, you know, now it's something else. I wanted to be a personal brand consultant for awhile. Now I'm like, you know, I can talk to it, but I don't think it's what I want to do for work so allow yourself to be messy and vulnerable as you're showing up like that. But you really have to explore those vulnerable parts of yourself and why you want to help other people based off your own story in order to have that stickiness or that vulnerability or that level of connection with people who have otherwise never met you. Try to create that same relationship with them. These strangers, as you would, if you sat down for a glass of wine, with someone who began as a stranger, but you guys shared so much intimacy about your own stories or your own life philosophy that you walk away from that meeting feeling completely different about them. We've all had those really great soul transforming conversations with people. How can you show up and like, take that first step with a mission.

Tiffany Yu: Absolutely. Back in 2016, I attended a leadership conference called Hive and it was a three day conference where the first day you spend  thinking about issues that were happening in the world. The second day, you spent really honing in on your own personal story. And then the third day you looked at how to  marry those two together, and you would come up with your own personal purpose statement. And so I thought that that was a really great way, if it's hard for you to tap into that vulnerability space to look for different conferences or different workshops that help you tap into that aspect of your story. And there was something that we did on our first day and it was called my defining moment. And each person in our small group was given seven minutes to share a story around what they thought that defining moment was in their life. If it's hard to tap into that space, another exercise that I found really powerful for me. It's an artifact based exercise where you pick something from your past and you pick something from your present and you share it in a small group. So, I thought that Hive and then this artifact exercise were both really great opportunities for me. The artifact exercise  I liked it because it brought me on the journey to say, okay, here's something that happened in my past, but here's where I am with it now. I do want to take a break here and then we'll come to your two other tips after the break. 

Haley Hoffman Smith: Yes. 

Tiffany Yu: Thanks Haley.

[break]

Tiffany Yu: Hi everyone. It's Tiffany here. And we're back with Haley Hoffman Smith. She's a speaker, founder of Your Big PR, author of Her Big Idea . And she was just sharing tips about how to build your own personal brand. And our first tip was really tapping into and showing your own vulnerability. 

Haley Hoffman Smith: So once you've done that type of self exploration work, which again, I really want to reiterate, you don't have to have it all figured out at first and you will go through more life experiences or self realizations that will get you closer to that. But once you feel like you've had a good starting point and there's something you want to share, then the second step is just going after visibility as much as you can. And I say as much as you can, because a lot of it is not going to be paid and it's going to be a lot of busy work. So that means getting on as many podcasts as you can, starting a blog or writing for a place like Thrive Global or for Medium, where you don't have to get approved to write there, but you're building up portfolios talking about your message, when you're getting in front of audiences and speaking for free or sometimes, as I did, when I started my speaking tour, investing money to get out there in the first place, investing money in travel and ending up in the red. But going out and getting on those stages and starting those relationships with the people who were in the audience. So exposure, exposure, exposure as much as you can, cultivating a social media strategy. But again, when I say strategy, I also want to make it clear that if it's too strategic and not vulnerable enough, and you're not really leading with your heart and what feels good to post, I think people can feel strategy. They can feel when something has been perfectly manicured or manufactured in a certain way. So one trick for me is I never schedule Instagram posts. I post when I feel like it. And I keep on to like a consistent track of posting maybe three to five times a week, but I make sure I have a quote for one picture and then a picture for my personal life as the next, what makes a cool grid. And then I don't plan what the post is going to be ahead of time. When I decide to post is because I feel like, Hm, I feel like I should post right now. And then I post what I want to. I usually write the caption in the moment, even though if you look at my Instagram, my captions are really long and it seems like I thought them out and like had a big creative session ahead of time. Or if I have had one of those creative sessions, I only post what I'm feeling a resonance within the moment, because I think people can feel that type of like organic nature to it. So I use that same sense of like leading from the intuition of what I want to create and put out there for everything that I do. When I feel inspired to record a podcast episode for Big Conversations, my podcast, or, you know, write something, now I write for Entrepreneur, I lead from that place of what feels good to create right now, because I also believe there's a lot of channeling that goes on when we create, and that will lead you to the right people at the right moments, but prioritizing visibility above all. 

Tiffany Yu: I love that. To your your first suggestion around vulnerability , doing that inner work is just so important for yourself, period. Not, not even to build a brand, just to better understand your own narrative and how that thing that happened in your life impacts the lens through which you see the world. So just something good for anyone to do. And then I loved a lot of things about your second suggestion around building visibility . I think we all have this idea that we're going to post something on Instagram or write a book and then all of a sudden, we're going to be booking tons of paid speaking engagements . And so I just love that there are all these different facets to how you build your brand too. Right. Because to your point around writing, there are some people who don't really know what to write about just yet. They're not quite sure what their voice is, but you're still posting on Instagram. Yes. And I think what I have found is by sharing really personal aspects of myself and where I am on my own journey , it does resonate with other people. In terms of press and speaking, press in itself is its own game, right? You're either pitching yourself or people are coming to you if they have stories. What's a good way to go about getting more press? 

Haley Hoffman Smith: Yes. First I would say that you need to have a really clear understanding of why you deserve press in the moment. And I'm not saying like, Oh no, like you only deserve press if you have something big, like you raised a million dollars. But what is it unique about your story that people want to hear right now? And I think it was the hardest part for people, because they're like, Oh, well maybe if I just sent out, you know, a blurb on what I'm doing and try to get press for what I'm doing at the moment, then that's great. But what is it about what you're doing that is going to change lives or what is a surprising statistic that you're basing your work in. Try to think through a really Clickworthy headline, because we live in the world where people have their goldfish attention spans. And journalists know this and journalists themselves have a goldfish attention span when it comes to their emails where they're getting pitches and also their Twitter inboxes. So I always say use Twitter because going back to the goldfish thing, Twitter is so much easier because I just send a quick message when I'm working on behalf of a client or pitching myself where I say, here's the headline. The headline is really Clickworthy, really interesting and intriguing and there's ways to work through an angle. Everybody has an angle. It's not like you either have a story or don't, it's just how you're positioning in the story. And then I say, if you're interested, can I email you the rest of the pitch? And then if they say yes, which oftentimes they do, because it's just like quick and easy and they're like, Oh yeah, that sounds interesting and it's easy enough for me to say yes and reply, then I email them based off the email they gave me, which is sometimes different from their Techcrunch email or whatever it is that most people find them through. And then I put in the subject line "follow up from Twitter" so they know they've already established contact with me. I don't have to come up with a snappy subject line now because subject lines for cold emails are so hard. And then I already feel like I have sort of the relationships. So I don't mind like nagging if I need to and following up because it's like, oh well, you said you're interested according to Twitter and here's the rest of the pitch for that article. So that's an easy way to establish contact with them if they're strangers to you. But in general, a lot of PR is just building relationships with different journalists and contributors and being like, what type of content are you looking for and seeing how you can help them more generally speaking with whatever it is. Friendships and relationships are the spice of life, because then, if you do have your own story or you have a book coming out and you can pitch it to them, they'll be more open to it for one, cause you already have that relationship or they can refer you to someone else and be like, that angle might not work for me right now, but I have someone else to refer you to. So go for a long game and press in general because press isn't just about having one PR season where you get a ton of features and all of these publications. And then that's that. Press should really be something that's continuously happening because it's proof of your credibility over time, as opposed to, if you got all the same features in the same month, and then you haven't gotten features in three years, it's like, Oh, it looks like they just hired a press person for a few months who landed them all of that, but they haven't been visible enough since. Press needs to have the, the sense of the journalist saw what you were doing, and they thought that that was amazing, and so they naturally picked up the press, which may or may not be true. But it has to have that general sense when someone Googles your name or your company, there's a lot of different pieces over time that show that you've consistently been credible, you've consistently shown up and been visible, and you've consistently been doing really cool things. Unless of course you have a big launch coming up. 

Tiffany Yu: Yeah, I love that. So my old life was in investment banking and networking is a big part of how you get your first investment banking internship, and everyone always really dreads it. And I would always tell people , don't think of it as networking, think of it as building relationships, because you know, it's not just right then and there of meeting that person that you're going to get that job or get that press piece, it's dropping those little seeds are like, Hey, I came across this thing. This article might be interesting to you or let me know if this is interesting. An article came out in Shondaland around dating during coronavirus. I just have like a couple of quotes there about my own experience. I shared it on LinkedIn  and I added to it and I said, this isn't normally what I'm sharing, but dating is part of my life right now. And if I think of the broader message for a lot of us who have disabilities, many of us are desexualized. So you're disabled, how could you want to be in a relationship or how could you have desire for human connection? And so I just wanted to share that because it's like this, this is part of my life and part of my reality now, but I also know there is a larger message of so many of us who have disabilities are kind of dehumanized or discounted of our desire for that aspect. 

Haley Hoffman Smith:  Just to add to that really quickly, I think it's important that you connected that part because that is part of your brand and Diversability. One thing that I'll tell people not to do is do something like through HARO, where somebody asks for something like a skincare recommendation that's going to go in Cosmopolitan and then putting it on their website for their company that they've been featured in Cosmopolitan, because then if somebody goes and looks it up and it's about your skincare recommendation and not at all about your business or what the services that you're selling. It looks like you used it to further your business and your business credibility when it's not at all related. You didn't get the press for that reason. So there has been places I've been featured like US News and World Report where I've never told anybody that. I've never publicized that because they interviewed me about a liberal arts degree from an Ivy league school. That has nothing to do with the work that I do in the world or my personal brand whatsoever. So even though that's a huge name, I don't put it on anything. Because I think that it's about building that trust because people do want to go check it out and look it up and it's, I would honestly only use HARO and those things for something that's connected immediately to your personal brand, or if you're doing it for, from a visibility standpoint. But there's something that feels a bit dishonest, even though it's not, if you're adding to your business page that you've been featured in these places and it's not actually for your business, does that make sense? 

Tiffany Yu: Yeah, and I think that's where the line gets kind of fuzzy around. Okay. You have your business brand, but you also have your personal brand and how intertwined are the two of those together and,  is it possible for your personal brand to do more. So for example, most of the press that I got when I first started Diversability was around the side hustle generation. But there was this part of using this side hustle angle as a way to let people know about what I was working on. 

Haley Hoffman Smith: Yeah. And I think, I think that's good. It's more the part about when you're speaking about something that you could peripherally speak about, cause you sort of have a piece of advice, but it's not at all related to the grander scope of your personal brand like using the skincare example. I don't know what that that's what came to my head, but that has nothing to do with my general brand of being big and stepping into a bigger life unless somehow the angle was about skin confidence or something. So in that case, it can kind of dilute your personal brand, whereas yours, that kind of makes sense because I'm better all you're seeking to like empower people and Diversability and sign up. Like, it kind of makes more sense rather than if you commented on the best type of place to find a bikini. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And it's how you validate it for yourself, but you just take it again from the standpoint of somebody who, if they were going to hire you, if they were going to buy your book or listen to your podcast or invest in you in some way, if they were going to stock each piece of press that you said that you were featured in and look up the publication and your name. What is it that they'd find and would it contribute or detract from your personal brand? So that's just like the number one little caveat to things like HARO et cetera.  

Tiffany Yu: And HARO for our listeners is Help A Reporter Out. It's like an email list where reporters are looking for different sources. So first tip is really around tapping into your own vulnerability. Second tip is around increasing your visibility. Haley, what's your third tip for building a personal brand? 

Haley Hoffman Smith: So the third is creating a service or product that people need that helps them get closer to what it is that you stand for. So for me, it's like, okay, stepping into a bigger life and then my service aspect, et cetera. Again, it's been changing cause I did personal brand consulting for awhile, but now it's like my speaking coaching program where I help people launch their own speaking tours or my Big Exposure group, which is totally free but it's not evergreen products. So people only can come in in smaller cohorts. And I give them tips on how to get big exposure to step into their bigger life. Or even my book would be another product along those lines. And then it's using those different products and services to get even more press because it's related to your personal brand and using them to get more visibility. So it's kind of like, I've almost created a pyramid for you of the baseline is to understand what it is that you are serving people for, what it is that you stand for. The second is you climb up the ladder by getting more visibility for it as yourself. And the third is you further validate and give credibility to your personal brand by offering real, tangible products and services that help people reach what it is that you, your personal mission stands for.

Tiffany Yu: I love it. I always look at every piece of content that I've put out. The one thing I think about is , is this in line with my voice? So that's a big part of the visibility, as well as like you'll know, what's in line with your brand if you feel, you know, a hundred, a thousand percent confident that you're putting it out there or whatever quote you give to the reporter for that piece of press. 

Haley Hoffman Smith: Yeah. Another thing along the line, just to make this point really, really salient is the hint of dishonesty from this point comes with, you know, you're trying to show people that you're an expert at something. So therefore they buy products or services from you or hire you to come in to speak about something. And so when they're going to tell their business partner or pitch whoever they get funding from about you, and they say like, Oh, well, this person has been featured in this, this and this for this. It seems like it's for that. But then when you look it up and it's not about that, it just, again can detract from your credibility. I know I'm like I'm driving home the same point, but that's a misconception about press that can, it doesn't necessarily shoot them in the foot, but it makes people kind of raise an eyebrow because press in general and a lot of like awards or things that you can get in the entrepreneurship realm can be really inauthentic. And the whole part of a personal brand is to be as authentic as possible. So in that case, it's honestly better to instead have like 20 articles on Medium related to what it is that you do and what you stand for as opposed to like being able to say that you were featured in one publication even if you have been, but if it didn't have anything to do with what it is that you're selling or what it is that you stand for.

Tiffany Yu: Yeah. and I love that we're having this conversation because I think also recognizing that it'll shift depending on, how your own story shifts later on too. But that's, that's the hard thing though, right? Is because your brand can shift and that's okay. 

Haley Hoffman Smith: Absolutely. And as long as I think, again, going back to the authenticity of the brand piece, like a lot of my own brand, even just using myself as an example is like, when I first got started in entrepreneurship, I started a girls literacy nonprofit, and then I had this other women's empowerment startup related to that nonprofit. And that's not really related to what I do now. Of course it's like semi-related, but I own my story as a whole. So in general, your personal brand, doesn't have to be a perfect match for what it is that you're doing right now, but it should encapsulate your story and your story shouldn't be edited. And that's why, that's why I have to urge people, it's okay if you're showing up messy right now, and you're not doing what you're ultimately going to be doing, as long as you're getting out there and you're still driven by that central mission, because even what you're doing right now, it's still going to be part of your story one day. Even if you go in a completely different direction, but how can you make things authentic right now?

Tiffany Yu: I love that. In one of my past jobs, I was a recruiter and I would do a lot of resume reviews for people who had been through career changes, who were really struggling around  how to craft their story.  That story is always there. There's always some thread in there, which is you, so even if the resume or the story has all these different puzzle pieces that you're not quite sure how they go together, there is a way that you can craft it so that there is some kind of dotted line there.

Haley Hoffman Smith: Yes. 

Tiffany Yu: I love all of those tips. A lot of the tips you mentioned are things that can be done digitally. So curious to hear how you're using this time? How would you use others to use this time?

Haley Hoffman Smith: I think now is just a really good time to double down on the strategy behind where you're ultimately going in the long term. So for me, I've really been using it to take some courses that I've bought. I've purchased them, but I haven't had time to actually go through them. And I'm also taking quiet time too. I feel like everybody on some level needed the reset. If we're afforded the privilege right now of the reset button.  But for those of us who are truly on like a reset and we can't leave the house, just ask yourself, where did you need it stillness right now? I've been really reflecting and using this time to think through where I'm going and where I came from and what the past few months have been like, I've realized I really did need a kind of like reset, a reprioritization. And so take that as you will. I know we're all at different places in our careers and what we're building, but I'd really use the time to get more intimate with yourself. Before you can be vulnerable with others, you gotta be vulnerable with yourself too. So what are things that you've been struggling with that are beneath the surface a little bit that have been nagging at you. What are the books and the courses that you've been putting off for awhile that you're ready to dive into?  Just reconnecting with yourself in that case. But in general for tips for people who want to get started on this personal branding stuff, in addition to the self reflection, I would spend a lot of time building. So build out your website. If you already have a website, what can you add to it? How can you make it really clear that you have the service aspect to your website when people show up and they're like, Oh, what does this person do? Is there a message about what you help with? Get intentional on social media about connecting with people who are either your target consumer or people who are like you, so you can build out those relationships because everybody's holding on their phones on their emails so it's a good time to connect with people. And I don't know, just like take out a sheet of paper or a whiteboard and strategize what you want the next six months to one year to six years to look like for yourself. And to do that, I would really take a step away from a lot of the external influences. I've been trying to not be on my phone as much, easier said than done, but I'm working on it and really get quiet with myself, which is something we're not afforded usually. You know, usually we have meetings all day or even if we do have a day where we're working and building and quiet in our offices, you know, we have dinner plans at night. So I'm trying to take as much as I can from my own personal time and being locked at home. And I think everybody has something to take from it.  

Tiffany Yu: I just love this message of it's okay to be gentle with yourself. So, it's okay to lay low, it's okay to take care and tend to what you need to take care of. My hope is that I can carry more of these lessons with me when we move into the next chapter of what this looks like 

Haley Hoffman Smith: And knowing that it's, it's going to serve that larger purpose, this isn't just like this huge inconvenience. One of my friends told me it's like pressing pause. We can press play again. But I almost wonder if it's like, not even pressing pause, it's just that necessary reset or hibernation before something greater. 

Tiffany Yu: Beautiful. Where can people find you online if they want to learn more about your work?

Haley Hoffman Smith: Instagram. It's just @haleyhoffmansmith.  And that's where I post everything that ever happens. You can also request to join my Facebook group. I'll probably open that up again here in a few weeks. So Big Exposure. Add me on Facebook .So my newsletter is called theHHStle spelled HHS, T L E like my initials . So I share a resource of the week, I share an LOL to make you laugh and smile, some song recommendations and a hustle tip of the week too. So you can subscribe on my website, haleyhoffmansmith.com. So I send that out every Monday and then my podcast, Big Conversations, you can subscribe on iTunes and that comes out every Tuesday.

Tiffany Yu:  I just wanted to close by saying, I am just so impressed with everything that you are . I have loved watching you build your empire and learn so many things, and  it's a great thing for me to watch you soar and be there cheering you on as well.


Tiffany Yu
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