030: Tiffany & Jack
In this episode, we’re joined by Jack Catalano, an NYC special education teacher, to discuss the past year on TikTok, online learning, and becoming a disability ally and advocate for his students and himself.
We discussed:
Jack on TikTok
How Covid has impacted disabled students
Advocating for disabled students
What it means to be an accessibility specialist
Jack’s disability origin story, finding community and pride
Disability allyship, learning and unlearning
Jack’s students featured on MSNBC
Disability employment
Show notes:
Jack on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mr.jackcat1
Watch Crip Camp on YouTube: https://youtu.be/OFS8SpwioZ4
For the Love of Men: https://amzn.to/2OnDUuy
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/first-time-voters-disabilities-are-eager-vote-trump-out-n1245724
TAO Cares: https://www.instagram.com/taocares/
About Jack Catalano
Jack Catalano is a special education teacher in New York City. He has been teaching individuals on the Autism Spectrum at the high school level for 8 years. He aims to help support his students gain valuable community and vocational-based work experience and post-graduate employment.
Follow Jack Catalano
TikTok: http://tiktok.com/@mr.jackcat1
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mr.jackcat1/
Transcript
Tiffany Yu: Hi everyone. And you're listening to this episode of Tiffany & Yu, the podcast. Tiffany & Yu is a podcast about things that matter. And more specifically, I'm speaking with friends who are using their platforms to cultivate creativity, compassion, and change. So Jack Catalano is someone that is a new friend of mine. We actually connected through TikTok. Jack is a special education teacher in New York City. I first wanted to start with TikTok because I want to hear about your journey getting onto the platform and how it's been for you so far.
Jack Catalano: So it's coming up on my, I guess one year TikTok anniversary. I'm not sure exactly what day. And I always have that date in mind because it pretty much started once the shutdown started in March of 2020. And I went remote for the first time as a teacher. Online learning, a whole new world, ton of anxiety, stress, what am I going to do with myself. And really about a month after starting remote, I finally worked up the courage to just put myself out there, and start making videos and it slowly grew from there.
Tiffany Yu: I love the content that you post. You post a lot of informative content around disability, but also a lot of content just around connecting the disability community. I know that you are a special education teacher, so I'd love to hear a little bit more of your interest in wanting to be more visible as a disability advocate.
Jack Catalano: So I'm in my eighth year as technically a special education teacher. That's my title and degree. I'm actively working to change that title myself. I no longer actually call myself a special education teacher, which we can get to a little bit more. I call myself an accessibility specialist because that's the crux of my job working in the New York City public schools. And I teach individuals with disabilities and all of my students are autistic at the high school level. And this is what I went to college for, my undergrad. I'm from Milwaukee, Wisconsin originally. And since then I have moved to New York, with my girlfriend, now wife, and have been teaching ever since. And really it's just been in the last year that starting TikTok, really, really digging into disability awareness, community, being exposed to so many creators, yourself included, that it has taken an entirely new light and perspective and drive for me.
Tiffany Yu: One of the things I do notice on your TikTok is you've got a lot of hats. And so I wanted to better understand how has COVID impacted the disability community and the role that you play, how your students have been navigating the past year.
Jack Catalano: It has been the most trying time of not only my life but definitely my students. All of our students with disabilities at my school and just, I can tell around the country. In particular, as you mentioned my hats, I started quarantine. I knew I would be saving a lot of money from not traveling, canceled concerts, vacation. I jumped online and started buying some funny hats, food, taco hats, animals, you name it, all for online learning, all to just try and spice up my own entertainment, bring a smile to my students in a tough time. And it's just evolved from there where now my classroom is filled with them. We have a lot of fun, but as far as the last year and how my students are doing, it's been a year of reframing my own background, my own knowledge. And in particular, just recently, I have reframed from years of calling what is the summer school decline, regression. I would always say, okay, kids come back in September. They've had a few months off, they're regressing, but really it's entirely changed just this year. And I no longer use that term. For me, my students are burned out. It's autistic burnout, and that means a multitude of things to each and every autistic individual. And for my students in particular and their parents who are very supportive, it means they're very depressed. They're having a very hard time and they aren't fully aware and cognizant of what that means, but you can just tell their behaviors, their interactions, the lack of social skills, and just the constant daily reminder that they're stuck at home, that they're scared for COVID still. And the world is not what it was. They're missing their field trips. They're missing all of their friends, their after-school activities and so much more. And it's just really, really difficult and ongoing.
Tiffany Yu: It's so important to talk about the fact that there is a mental health aspect of living with a non-mental health-related disability that I think either practitioners or professionals really do forget about. What are the strategies that you've learned, over the past year to keep your students engaged, to check in with them on a mental health basis, have you found anything that works?
Jack Catalano: The number one thing that drives me to this day and through the rest of this pandemic until we are all back together is authentic love and empathy and compassion. And I don't set expectations for you need to be on at this time. You need to stay with me. You need to keep your camera on. You need to participate and respond at all times and do all the homework. No, they're just trying to survive a pandemic right now. Their parents, many single moms, grandmas, aunts, fathers are trying to help and work in the same time. And it's all just getting through. And what works for me is just bringing as much joy, as much praise. Not to toot my own horn, but I bring so much energy and love to my job because it's truly authentic to me. I love what I'm able to do. As much as I loathe as a teacher and hate remote learning and online learning. I wasn't taught this. We have reinvented the wheel as a society, as a whole group of teachers. But I know I share that same feelings with thousands and thousands of teachers around this country, especially on TikTok, who I've connected with. And honestly, it just comes down to bringing joy, bringing compassion, bringing whatever they're interested in. Let's just have a social conversation for a little while. Let's play some music and get going. I have a routine every day where we start with a little workout and I let the kids pick. They get to interact for a few minutes after class and before class and just say hi to their friends. It's not like let's get to work. And that's really important as far as just welcoming them, letting them feel like they are accepted fully that this is not their fault either. And that I'm here for them, even though I'm not physically with them. And I can't give them a hug. I can't pat them on the back. I can't give them a fist bump, but I am proud of them regardless. I don't go more than a minute without telling how proud of you I am or just telling them how well they're doing and how good they are at home for their parents.
Tiffany Yu: It's so important to be that source of joy and compassion. I'm sure the hats help as well.
Jack Catalano: Absolutely endless fun with those, for sure. For me too.
Tiffany Yu: I feel like teachers play such an important role in terms of advocating for their students. I'd love to hear about the role you see yourself playing as an advocate for the students who are in your classroom.
Jack Catalano: That's extremely personal to me. And over my eight years now, that means a multitude of different things. That means advocating for them to go to inclusion. I teach a self-contained classroom. And what that means is that all of my students are with me all day long. We share a building with another high school. We are a very small part of the building. But we don't share classes with them. I have advocated by setting up with their school counselors, along with my speech teacher, peer mentor programs, opportunities over the years for them to socialize. And that has been a big help for their inclusiveness. That's really what we want in the world for everyone with a disability. They want to be included. They want to be together with everyone with no limitations. And also it just comes to, I have students who I have to advocate for and they shouldn't be in a self-contained classroom. They come to me after middle school and I'm very much if I work on their goals, their IEP goals, their skills to get them ready for inclusion and I often am able to send kids to an inclusive classroom as much as I know I'll miss them and I want to keep them forever in my class. And that's just always the dream, always the goal. It doesn't happen with all of our students, but it's all about giving them the least restrictive environment to meet their full potential. And that's what I'm constantly advocating for, whether they need additional services when it comes to their speech acquisition, their occupational therapy, their counseling. I am always ensuring that my students, especially during COVID are getting those extra sessions without overdoing it as well, because the more you put on them, the more possibility of them burning out and struggling. So it goes both ways when it comes to advocating for them. It's giving them more and then also making sure you're not giving them more than they can handle.
Tiffany Yu: It's that fine line between, let me push you to your potential, but not so that you'll break and never try again. Just so I understand, because I was in high school a long time ago, when you talk about self-contained classroom, there's a lot of thought around, in the past, it was called segregated and then integrated classrooms. It sounds like the work you do is around trying to get some of your students out of this self-contained environment into an integrated one? Can you tell me why a self-contained environment is helpful to then ultimately get to this goal of inclusion?
Jack Catalano: So my students, we do assessments at the beginning of every year, three times a year to measure their skills and their progress in their reading, their writing, their math, their social, emotional wellbeing. And when it comes to identifying what's the best placement for them. And a lot of my students, even though they are in high school, they are anywhere from 14 to 18 years old on a given year, their academic, their reading, and social, and math levels, and scores are that elementary level. My kids and my classroom are learning at a, according to our assessments, anywhere from a first to third or fourth-grade reading and math level. So that's where it comes to, okay, would it be fair to them? Would it give them the best opportunity for success to throw them in a general education high school classroom at an algebra level or at an advanced literature class just to be there? That's not the best thing for them. That really isn't. So it comes down to, can I provide them with the same education, which they are morally, legally allowed the same content standards that a general education, 16-year-old high school student is getting. And then I, as an accessibility specialist, have to break down those complex standards to meet their possibly first-grade reading level. It's a very hard job. It's one that takes incredible patience, time rethinking, but that is really the moral aspect. So I know when it comes to inclusion, that's the goal. I do have kids who can spend part of the day that I send to my inclusion classes that my school has that different buildings. And only when they reach a certain level, when I know that they might not be able to get the full high school diploma, but they can socially, they can academically at least follow along long enough, keep up, do the work and also socialize with the other students in the most appropriate manner possible for them. So I still want my self-contained students who will stay with me for anywhere from two to three years to get as much exposure. We try and collaborate with the other schools, that we share our building with so they can interact, so we can have the mentors come, so we can do social events just to get that exposure and that experience. They get opportunities during lunch. That's why I want COVID to go away so we can get back to all of that. And they're missing out on that, precious years. As adults, we're going to be okay. These kids only get one prom or one graduation, and that's the hardest part right now.
Tiffany Yu: I love the way you frame that in terms of helping your students make as much movement forward as possible. Maybe the steps are a little bit smaller, shorter than other students. And so it's just making sure that there's at least movement. So we're going to take a quick break here. And when we come back, we will continue chatting with Jack Catalano.
And we are back from the break here. You're listening to this episode of Tiffany & Yu, the podcast. I have with me, Jack Catalano, special education teacher in New York City, although he mentioned he doesn't really identify himself as a special education teacher, but more as an accessibility specialist. Can you tell me more about that?
Jack Catalano: It's very much at the beginning I feel like of what I hope to be a much larger movement. I did not coin the term. Other accessibility specialists have explained to me on social media over the last year just what that means and it really encapsulates everything that I do is making my classroom, making the curriculum, making what I teach my students accessible. My students have needs that are accessible needs. They are not special in any way, shape, or form compared to a neuro-typical or a able-bodied individual. I hate the word special when it comes to special needs or special education. I know it's here to stay. I know it's a long flight. I've seen Crip Camp and the long fight it came from just getting 504 to the ADA. And even 30 years later, making sure that it's even enforced fully, which there's still a long way to go. But my whole job is ensuring that my students' needs are understood not as special, but as human needs, as valid needs as anyone else in society. And I aim really to spread that message, to make sure that people get that language and understand and are okay with that. There are so many different euphemisms out there when it comes to exceptional education or I know handicap is no longer a word we use. And same with just being disabled, not differently-abled. I'm disabled. They're disabled. They have a disability. That's not a bad word. And we need to bring the world to them and they deserve every opportunity. And that's my whole job. That's what I believe in.
Tiffany Yu: You and I are both at the precipice of really understanding that language disempowers and empowers. It plays such a. Such an important role. And I think I saw either something on Instagram that said accessibility is a human right. And one of the things I've been thinking about is that oftentimes when people hear accessibility, they think mandate, they think compliance. And how can we transition that into human? I think really adapting to the social model of disability, which is the disability in itself isn't the problem. It's the ableism and the ableist structures that are surrounding us. I wanted to touch on allyship, but this is an interesting dynamic because you do have lived experience with disability. I wasn't sure if you wanted to share about your personal experience with it.
Jack Catalano: So when I say 2020 and about a year ago when the pandemic started, I really was just a teacher. I just was a special education teacher. And I have come a long way in my understanding, my learning, and my acceptance of what is my own disability, and what it means to be neurodivergent. I have ADHD. I was just diagnosed a year ago, finally, after a lifetime of knowing, but not officially knowing. And I can't help, but often think back with my own therapist about what it means, what it could have been like had I been given the proper supports back in grade school to not struggle, not have the challenges I had. And also in high school, I was also diagnosed with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, hypermobility, which is a joint disorder. And really, it hasn't been an issue for me much until about a year ago. I turned 30 and it's like a light switch where the pain I am now just in the last year has been much more prevalent. And really just in the last few months, really the end of 2020 and 2021 have I for the first time ever called myself disabled. And it's been an emotional up and down rollercoaster as you or anyone with a disability can relate I'm sure as far as that acceptance, that outwardness. So I didn't start TikTok advocating as, Oh, I'm disabled. I'm neurodivergent. I just was me, but really, because of all of the inspiration I found from the disability community on TikTok, on Instagram, on social media, in films. I am okay. I am valid in my own pain and my own feelings and their rollercoaster that that is. So it's really been so positive for me. In a nutshell, it's still hard. I have my chronic pain. I wear my braces more often than not. And one quick story. About a month ago was really the first time that I had pain during the day. Usually, it was at night, it would come every few months, and then it was every few weeks. And now it's pretty regularly, almost every day, but about a month ago, it was the first time I had my wrist braces on and I knew I needed to wear them at work. And I was teaching at a different classroom remote because one of my colleagues was off with a medical leave recently. And so I took over her class. I was alone in a classroom, but the hours in between my online sessions, I went and visited my live kids who have a sub teacher for part-time. And it was the first day I wore my braces and I had to, I didn't want to hide it. I didn't have to be stronger than my disability. So I walked into my classroom. I had my five students there. I went up to my one girl student with my arms behind my back to hide my braces, just instinctually, like I'm not comfortable yet. And I lean over, I say, hi, how are you? With my mask on. And she's like, hi, Mr. Jack. I can see your braces. And I'm like, I'm caught. And then I pulled them out. And she just goes, it's going to be okay, Mr. Jack, you're okay. And I was like, That's all you need. My one girl, who's the sweetest girl in the world just accepted and she's like, yeah, that's okay. There's nothing wrong, you know? And what I give them, they give back to me and it's just truly the greatest gift in the world. And I love it. I'm so blessed.
Tiffany Yu: I love that story. Thank you for sharing. And this is actually what happened with me, but 12 years ago, which is I started to meet other disabled people. And once I realized, Oh, why do I feel shame? I think that's often why a lot of us will hide. And then it was, Oh, now that I know other people, and we have a shared experience of what it feels like to be socially isolated or socially excluded, what does it look like to claim this word as my own and be proud in it? Is that what the turning point was for you over the past year?
Jack Catalano: Absolutely. And for me, a big thing was just searching on TikTok, for example, the hashtag Ehlers Danlos syndrome. And I was like, I had never met someone else before with the same condition. There are many types of Ehlers Danlos syndrome. Mine is hypermobility type, which I think is the most common. But there is a varying degree of abilities and levels of pain and comorbidities that come with that. I was able to connect with so many for the first time in my life that's like, Oh, they're doing it. They're living happy, fulfilling lives. It's not bad. There's nothing bad. I can still be happy. And a big thing now recently is just disability pride. I'm happily disabled. I don't hide the word. There's nothing to hide from it.
Tiffany Yu: And I also want to highlight too for our listeners because it is a journey. I didn't identify as disabled for the first 12 years after I became disabled. Staying on this theme of TikTok, now we've been on TikTok for about a year. You've gotten a chance to connect with the EDS community. You've gotten a chance to connect with other teachers. What is your intention on the platform going forward? What is the stickiness that keeps you on there?
Jack Catalano: I have no expectations. I only do it for myself first and foremost. As long as I can make one person happy, smile, that's enough. That really is. In all reality, it's been a journey. And moving forward, I just want to continue to advocate, to lift up other voices, to learn myself, to share my journey. Because I've realized from so many, especially teachers, especially the autistic community who is huge, that they don't have many people who are looking out for them. If I can do that in my own way, on my own time, that's really amazing. I'm myself. I'm me. I'm a weird, goofy guy. And I just want to bring kindness and love and compassion into the world. And that's what keeps me going. That's all I want moving forward. There's so much hate and negativity all over the world in so many communities, especially with the Asian community right now and it just breaks my heart, breaks my heart. And any bullies, anyone with hate in their heart, I just teach my students. We meet them with love. We love them. They're hurting.
Tiffany Yu: You're learning that a lot of people who are autistic don't feel like they have a lot of people looking out for them. And I feel like you have been such an incredible ally and advocate for your students and for this community. And so I'm curious, what does allyship look like to you?
Jack Catalano: I think a big thing just through this first year of TikTok, is that I'm yes, almost a year in, but I am just beginning. I feel like I haven't even really scratched the surface of what really is possible moving forward. I've spent the last year learning and listening. Allyship is listening to the autistic voices. What are they saying about how they want to be labeled? How they feel about their needs and what they want for themselves, and really advocating for that. So often, and even now, a big conversation is the language around, is it identity-first or is it person-first language? Many and the majority of the autistic community prefers identity-first language, meaning I am an autistic person. Person-first, meaning I am person with autism. So many of them are now just like I am proudly disabled. I am a disabled person. I have a disability. They don't want to be separated from their autism. They are proudly autistic. It is not something to any longer feel shame for. And yes, it comes down to obviously personal preference, but I think it should be 100% by the members of that community who get to decide how they want to be represented. No longer the institutions, the colleges, the corporations deciding, who aren't a part of that community, whatever community that may be, the disability, autistic, Asian, Black, Latina. Let them decide for themselves. And then we have to listen and I have to uplift their voices. And there's also just so much. Education is constantly evolving. I love learning. I love reading. I get recommendations from them. I have made mistakes too. I have apologized for my language. I have evolved and that's all it is. It's a strength to admit that you are wrong, that you didn't know. And I very much before this first year on TikTok was using functional labels, was that they very much, so I am 100% against now. There is no high-end, low functioning of autism. It's not a linear spectrum. It is a beautiful color wheel where the traits go inside and out, a thousand different variations. They're all their own perfectly autistic individuals. And I aim to just truly listen to them and continue to listen to them and be the best advocate and ally that I can be.
Tiffany Yu: I love the fact that you just mentioned listening and how powerful listening is. We need to spend some time listening and really learning. You had a big win with your students. You connected with Liz Plank? Can you tell me what that was?
Jack Catalano: She is just an incredible ally, first and foremost, and an inspiration to me when it comes to be my feminist icon. Her book, For the Love of Men, is absolutely game-changing forever in my mind. I buy it for many of my male friends because I think we have a huge problem in this country when it comes to raising boys. I was really excited to reach out prior to this past election. I just sent her an email because I had met her four years earlier, right after Donald Trump won in 2016. And I told her about that day, the most emotional day of my teaching career when I had students just break down and couldn't comprehend what was happening, the fear in their eyes to now then four years later, how they were first-time voters. My autistic students, they're included. They had the opportunity, their voices mattered, and they were heard. And Liz helped me amplify that through an article and an interview. And it was just such an incredible experience. And I hope for so much more of that in the future and where I have the ability to continue to lift other people's voices up myself.
Tiffany Yu: And I just get the sense that you're the best cheerleader for your students, whether or not they were your students eight years ago and have moved on. One of the things I talk about is that kids will then become adults. And oftentimes we're very fixated on the education part without really thinking about career preparedness or what happens after they leave the classroom. What do you think is the biggest challenge and the biggest opportunity that you are excited about or thinking about with regard to your students as they move into the next phase of their lives?
Jack Catalano: Based on, I know it's least New York state law, my students are entitled to a free and appropriate education until they are 21. So once I have them in high school, 14 to 18, and when they turn 18, they go to our vocational transition classes. So what that means is that they get three years and if their parents, they can pull them out but generally, most, almost all of our students stay until they're 21. And then they get three years of instead of just rigorous academics, we're working on vocational training. They are working on reaching out in the community. The saddest part about this pandemic is that we have so many partners out in the community, businesses that would let us come. Even I would go two days a week. When they're in transition, they go five days a week. They're going to work from 18 to 21. They get a paycheck. There's a stipend for them. It's the most empowering aspect for them. And they are the best, hardest, most honest, trustworthy, reliable workers you will ever have, just autistic individuals in general. I can't overemphasize that enough. But the sad reality is that for so many people with disabilities, you know the stats. I don't have it off the top of my head, but the underemployment, the unemployed, it's massive. It's massive. And so many of our students age out. We try to get them a job. We try to get them in a program. And oftentimes it's so hard. They can flounder. There's day camps. There's vocational rehabilitation centers, but it's not enough. We need more acceptance. We need more supportive employment opportunities for my students. And the sad reality is so many of them are underemployed or unemployed for far too long after they age out at the age of 21. And that's really where so much of me and my colleagues and our advocacy is focused on. I start when they come to me, the transition phase, and then I give them over to my trusted colleagues and hope that they can get them and they pound the pavement, try to get them in a job, but it is so hard even in a big city, like New York City. So there's a lot of work to do.
Tiffany Yu: There's tons of work to do. One of the things I've been shifting around the way I talk about disability employment is that I'm not really here to change policy, but what needs to change are hearts and minds. Because we've had a policy for three decades protecting our rights. And yet we're still seeing unemployment and underemployment. What are the best steps to take when engaging businesses about employing people who have intellectual and physical disabilities? What are you suggesting in terms of strategies for businesses to start to really change some of their own hearts and minds?
Jack Catalano: The most success we've had with certain businesses, I can shout out TAO Restaurant Group, for example, the head chef has a son with autism. He has a whole TAO Cares Instagram page. They have hired some of our students. They have given them full opportunities. So it's not enough just to find allies in businesses with disability representation in their own family. It comes to as exactly as you said, changing hearts and minds. And that means hitting the pavement. Me and my colleagues will often, non-Covid times hit the pavement, go into any business. We have a binder full of information about our students. We just want to volunteer just to get our foot in the door. And then hopefully it can lead to a job. We want to tell these businesses and show them the exposure. I didn't have much disability exposure growing up to people with disabilities not in the workforce. And you don't see it. You can't be what you don't see. And that's such an important thing. And that's the key that we've found. And the limited success that we've found at the bare, basic level of just New York City, going around the community, is just trying to educate others. Hey, if you take no responsibility, we've got it covered. We're going to be with them and we're going to support them and help them if you just give us a chance. And boy do the employers and the businesses when we're in there and they get so sad when the school year ends, because they love our kids and our kids will greet them and they're so happy, and that's really it. The world is missing out by not employing the disability community. There's no one more honest and trustworthy and reliable.
Tiffany Yu: Something I've been thinking about is oftentimes the best allies come from proximity. This is why I think disability employment is so important is you get proximity by having that disabled employee in there. And then you learn. And so I love that you talked about just that first chance. Even if I look back at my own career, the first chance I got was this internship in investment banking. And I think that ended up propelling a lot of other things for me. So I appreciate all your insights there. And as we close, what are you grateful for today?
Jack Catalano: Well, I'm definitely first and foremost, I'm grateful for you. My heart is heavy for the Asian community. I'm grateful to be able to learn. I'm grateful for kindness and love from friends and family. I have the most supportive, incredible wife in the world who I get to spend time with each and every day and go home safely to. I have all the privileges in the world and I don't take anything for granted. I am just so grateful for the breath I get each and every day. And I don't say that to be some grand person, but it's the truth. Every day is truly a blessing and not to be taken for granted.
Tiffany Yu: And I love the way that you are using your breath in a way to advocate for a community that really needs you. If people want to follow you or support your work, is there a good place you would like to direct them to?
Jack Catalano: I'm on TikTok and Instagram at @mr.jackcat1.
Tiffany Yu: Jack loved having you on our show. It was great to meet you in this way and thank you to all of our listeners for listening to this episode of Tiffany & Yu.
Jack Catalano: Thank you so much.