011: Tiffany & Kareemah
In this episode, we’re joined by Kareemah Batts on how to be an anti-racist and ally in the wake of the unnecessary deaths of George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, Nina Pop, Sean Reed and so many more.
We discussed:
Kareemah’s origin story
Why she doesn’t need another person “checking in” on her
Racism within disability
How to be an anti-racist and ally
Affinity spaces
Language
The need for more intersectional stories and representation
Show Notes
Change.org petition: https://www.change.org/p/mayor-jacob-frey-justice-for-george-floyd
ColorOfChange petition: https://act.colorofchange.org/sign/justiceforfloyd_george_floyd_minneapolis/
White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo: https://amzn.to/2Bmcrm5
Anti-racism resources: http://bit.ly/ANTIRACISMRESOURCES
Referenced by Tiffany: https://generalassemb.ly/blog/why-we-should-all-be-angry/
About Kareemah Batts
Kareemah Batts born in New York City, and grew up in the Flatbush area of Brooklyn, New York. She describes herself as a life-long outsider who has gotten used to “inviting” herself to every space she has entered. She was raised by her maternal aunt and uncle who took guardianship of her at 19 months from foster care. Kareemah was diagnosed with Synovial Sarcoma in 2009. Her amputation due to cancer led her to Colorado Mountain School in 2011 where she fell in love with climbing and founded Adaptive Climbing Group, the largest climbing program for people with disabilities in the country.
Follow
Website: https://www.kareemahbatts.com/
Instagram: http://instagram.com/herhopness
Transcript
Tiffany Yu: Welcome to Tiffany & Yu. I’m your host, Tiffany Yu. It’s been a heavy time after the unnecessary deaths of George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, Nina Pop, Sean Reed and so many more. Historian Ibram X. Kendi says being an anti-racist is necessary to fight racism. I saw this highlighted on theSkimm this morning — “Anti-racist is viewing all racial groups as equal and supporting policies that lead to equity and justice. To not only acknowledge racism exists, but to fight it whenever it arises.” On today’s episode, we’re joined by Kareemah Batts. She’s a diversity, equity & inclusion advocate, cancer survivor, and founder of the Adaptive Climbing Group to share her perspectives on racial justice, equity, and allyship. She references a series of Stories of Instagram. In her words, “Where I need you is on the front lines of humanity. I need you in board meetings, Capitol Hill, your jobs, your family reunions, and your most intimate relationships with other Caucasian people. Your post about “racism is wrong” does not change a thing. It’s what you do after that that does. I want to see your consistency actionable movement.” I have a lot to unlearn and relearn myself and I’m listening so that I can show up and take action.
Tiffany Yu: Hi everyone. It's Tiffany here. And you're listening to this episode of Tiffany & Yu. I have with me today, outdoor enthusiast, disability and diversity, equity advocate, Kareemah Batts. Hey Kareemah.
Kareemah Batts: Hi Tiffany.
Tiffany Yu: So Kareemah and I met back in 2016 when I was living in New York. She's based in New York City and I went to my first ever Adaptive Climbing Group class at Brooklyn Boulders and had a blast. And I loved rock climbing as a kid and after I became disabled when I was nine, didn't think that there was an option for me for someone who could only climb with one arm. So that's when I met Kareemah. We had a really great Instagram live session about healthy screen time a couple of months ago. And I wish we could be re-meeting under better circumstances. But it was actually interesting cause on that call at the end I was like, Kareemah you should come on my podcast and now here we are. So I figured I would start. I always love starting with just hearing a little bit more about your disability origin story.
Kareemah Batts: Okay. Well, I don't know that's a really hard one, an origin of, I guess my origin story. Well, I grew up in New York City right in Flatbush, Brooklyn. I was born in Manhattan Hospital and was placed in the foster system. My mother had behavioral disabilities. You can imagine that 20 years ago or 30 years ago is very different than how disabilities are treated now, so she didn't quite get the care that she needed. So I was found when I was born through someone who worked at a hospital that knew some family members from church and recognized the unique name. And, that's how I found out I existed. I also had a half brother born, a year and a half before me that my family didn't know about because my mother had been missing for a few years with her mental illness. But they were able to adopt me and my brother and we were raised by our aunts and uncles, and him and one house in Manhattan and me in Brooklyn. And, we were raised in a pretty strict Christian household, went to private school, Christian schools, and went to church every weekend. And my uncle who raised me was very big on gardening, was very big on fishing, especially, and he was a scout leader. And so I joined that as well, which sparked my love for the outdoors. And, as I became an adult, especially in my twenties, I went to college, Hunter College, and wanted to work in marketing and publishing, all the things that young 20 somethings want to do. And, while working for Cambridge Publishing, I started to get really sick but didn't know why, eventually found out that it was cancer, and left the job. And, then the recession happened, which I thought was great timing cause I couldn't work any way. So, due to that, I had the stage four cancer, called Synovial Sarcoma, which led to me becoming an amputee left below the knee in 2009. And, then I went through cancer treatment.
Tiffany Yu: So we got a little bit cut off there, but as you know now, Kareemah is a kick ass Stage 4 cancer survivor and amputee. We're going to take a break here, and when we come back, we're going to chat with Kareemah about the racial injustice that's been happening now.
[break]
Tiffany Yu: So we're recording this conversation on June 1st. We've just come out of a really heavy weekend, a really heavy week, probably a really heavy period of time where we've had the unnecessary and violent deaths of George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, Nina Pop, Sean Reed, and so many more. I'm just curious, Kareemah, what's your reaction? How are you doing with all of this?
Kareemah Batts: I think for people who are black and have experienced racism their entire lives, I'm not saying we're numb or anything, but it's not the first time that a black man was killed by police unnecessarily, isn't the first time someone's been accused of a crime he didn't commit. this is not new. It's a hundred years old. it's before my time even. So when someone was like, how are you feeling about this? I'm like, I guess the way I've always been feeling, it sucks.
Tiffany Yu: I guess with all of the protests that happened over the weekend, there was something about that kind of energy that felt a little bit new to me, but perhaps that's still not new.
Kareemah Batts: if you're talking about the energy, I'm a wait and see. I see there's a lot of social media posts. I see there's a lot of protests. It's also not the first time there's been protests either. It's the first time there's ever been COVID and protests and you mix that together with 40 million people out of work. There's a lot of free time people didn't have, they have now. And that changes things too. That changes how things move as well, because I remember there being protests, whether it be for disability rights, women's rights, people of color, people of color rights. I always had to be like, well, can I attend that? Cause I have a work thing I got to do. Now I can attend every single one, like people are like, I have all the time in the world. All I'm doing is gardening. Let me go to a protest. That means something to me. And then you also have a lot of people who are sitting at home dealing with the PTSD of COVID. They might be dealing with the financial strain of COVID, the fear, the isolation, and then an anger already built up over the last three months. It's almost like a powder keg to add this to. It was like a fuse to an already existing bomb of emotion. Like I said, these sort of events happening to black people, not the first time, not new. In a week, the same amount of people, the same amount of black people have been killed needlessly and violently by quote unquote mistake, and it's just been brushed underneath the rug, not the first time. So when you, when you have that happening, but you combine it with everything else, I think it definitely has a major effect on the response of the people.
Tiffany Yu: Yeah, that makes sense. When COVID started, many of us were talking about collective grief and trauma that all of us were going through and how hard this pandemic was on all of us. And now we've added another layer. I'm looking back at our messages here and someone had read something to me, they had seen on Facebook around how this is the time for non black people to step up, but it's not just about listening to another podcast or reading another book or sharing something on social media like we need people to show up. So I'm curious from your point of view, what do you feel like you need right now ? And then what do you think that those of us who are non-black can do to really get educated, things that we can do to best support.
Kareemah Batts: I said it on my Instagram this morning because I tend to post in the morning. One, it's when my mind races the most, you think of all the things you have to do today and then the news had shed and all those things that you first thing in the morning, your phone's lightened up. Whatever you missed last night. I specifically posted because I did get a lot of messages from non-black people concerned about how I'm feeling . How are you dealing with it? Are you okay? It seemed weird because considering that black people die literally every day, every week, and there still are more stories that you guys are not hearing during these last four days, like two other people also needlessly died. But because it doesn't make news. It doesn't make mass media. It doesn't get the same amount of attention because celebrity is not posting about it. Your mayor didn't have to go up and make a statement about it. So to get these messages now from people that I've known my whole life or for years who are not black, and I'm just like, you should have asked me how I felt about it when I got called a n-- at age 20 in Lincoln, Nebraska. Like, so I was like, I don't know. I feel the same way I did yesterday, day before, the day before, day before. Good allyship is not about asking me how I'm feeling. Unfortunately, I hate to tell you this, but black people have been working on that ourselves. We have to deal with this every day. So we've already created our own communication system about checking into how we feel about our racism. So it was like, that's unnecessary for me. And then why don't you just place yourself in my shoes? How would you feel if you had to work four times as hard to prove to a white person that you're more than you are? If you also understand that, then you already know how I feel. You don't have to ask. Don't ask me how I'm feeling. Just make action. I feel like action is the best thing anyone can do right now. And that comes with people just being aware that this is something that they need to work on. And then you just ask yourself what you can do. There are petitions out there, there are things you can do at home too, or where you live. speaking up and speaking out. When you see racism happening before your eyes just open your mouth. Like, cause that's really where the change begins. some of these same people are your neighbors and they see a neighbor making a racist comment about the black neighbor. That's the time for you. That's when you do something. I see the protest and it is humbling as it was in 1960s to see white people march with Martin Luther King. Or ride the Freedom Ride bus in the sixties. It's also very great to see white allies march with signs, with Brown and black people on racism and police brutality. But when the protests are no longer trending and everyone goes back home or back to work, COVID vaccine. That's where the real work happens. Like where I really actually say, you're doing something because it, it shouldn't be like this trending moment just because you see it on the news now. It now matters. And that's my view. Okay, so the protest and the riots are gone. And then after that, no one ever talks about it again. And then another news story where someone needlessly gets killed, it gets enough viral hits that it shows up on your feed and you go, I'm so shocked. I was like, it just means it's still happening from the same one you saw before and the same one you read about 50 years ago. It's the exact same thing. I think for me though, as a disabled person, as a person with a disability, a noticeable disability that's very visual like an amputation. I'm very concerned about the black and Brown people with disabilities or different abilities, like who actively speak ASL, and don't speak a hearing language, who can't hear cop sirens and police yelling their demands to them and watch them get kicked and thrown down on the floor. Because their disability doesn't allow them to comply in the same way. Or be knowledgeable about what's happening. I think right now we're only talking about able-bodied individuals who were hurt by police, and there's also people with disabilities who have been hurt by police. And that gets washed over just a little bit more because the cop goes, well, how was I supposed to know? Was it compliant?
Tiffany Yu: Yeah. And we did hear stories at the beginning of this pandemic of our deaf community members being punished for the sheltering notices, the quarantine notices not being made accessible to them. So how were they supposed to know if they were, if they were out and about? I think really acknowledging that there is an intersectional part of this as well, which is, for those of us who are non-black, it's how can we speak up? But then how can we also acknowledge that all these identities compound on top of each other?
Kareemah Batts: I agree with that. there are books I can suggest about, how to be an ally like White Fragility is a very popular one that I've sent to a lot of friends who have asked me the same similar questions you're asking me about allyship and learning about anti-racism versus saying you're not racist and be active action ally. Not just saying, that's not my point of view, that's theirs, I'm a different white person. Like, or I'm a different Asian person, or I'm a different Spanish person and look at all my black friends like, it doesn't mean that you're anti-racist it just means that you're neutral. You're just not active racist, you're passive racist, as if it is. It's like a totally different thing. For me to be a true ally of transgender or, and then there's this also this intersectionality like, I think people forget that there's actually racism in the disabled community.
Tiffany Yu: Yes.
Kareemah Batts: I think that's a really big thing because I know you're like, I don't want to separate us anymore cause we're already separated by this large population of people where the laws are not in our favor. But even though the laws are not in our favor as a culture of people as PWDs are a culture of people. There are separations that we have amongst our ability. We had one of our adaptive climbing sessions and there were a few wheelchair users on our Zoom call. And he wanted to touch on laws that affect wheelchair users. And in that, he tried to use me as an example, saying how easy I have it because whenever I want and just get one. And I was like, that's not how my health insurance works. And so there's all these kinds of like rumors or perception of how our lives are better or worse based on physical mobility or different disabilities. And then there's another sort of separation, our race as well. cause I'll go to a para sports event and I work in para climbing. And I can tell you most of the people in para climbing are Caucasian. And it's not because only Caucasian people would like to climb or like climbing. It's just the access to it. their parents can pay for better health insurance. Get better opportunities for assisted devices. They get kind of pushed to the front of the line, get more knowledge on resources. Their friend in this department can get them on this clinical trial.
Tiffany Yu: Yeah. Yeah.
Kareemah Batts: And they get picked for all the news stories on para sports too, over any Brown children or Brown people and they seem to focus less on our disability than-- they'll say how a black girl from this neighborhood, and she also happens to be missing a leg. like as if the disparity was actually the race before the disability when we're so used to like hearing this phrase where they're like, a blind man's struggled to climb this mountain and his struggles with his blindness. like, it's, Oh. Black kid, like the story is just written differently too among the disabled community as well. And who I see on the covers of the magazines focus on people with disabilities and who run the organizations.
Tiffany Yu: Yeah, there's another disability advocate named Vilissa Thompson who created the hashtag #DisabilityTooWhite. And I got to see her speak on a panel a couple of weeks ago, and she talked about exactly what you were talking about, just racism that exists within the disability community.
And I will acknowledge, within the Asian community, we have a lot of anti-black racism as well, and, and I have a role to play in terms of calling out statements that are made . And then the other part of that is, there's a term called disability justice that was coined in 2005 because they felt that the disability rights movement and disability studies didn't centralize the needs and experiences of people experiencing intersectional oppression, like disabled people of color, immigrants, queer, trans, etc. So I am noticing that even within disability rights, disability advocacy, there's an acknowledgement that there has been an erasure of blackness from the history.
Kareemah Batts: Yeah, I definitely do believe that. And I think more than anything, cause I heard people talk about the riot, so there's a number of reasons why I don't riot. I believe in OPP, other people's property. There's a rap song from the nineties. Everyone should listen to it. And, but like I always had a thing about other people's property. And I've never been so, so angry that I've hit another person. I know there's people who are, but I've never been so angry that I've hit another person so I can never be so angry that I would destroy something that doesn't belong to me. I'm not saying that it's not possible for people to be that way. I know it is. And you have to also understand that, like I said, we're dealing with a powder keg. But also there's advantages and disadvantages of it. Because there's never been a movement that didn't have any violence in it, and that's the truth.
I would love for you to name some big movement in history where laws were changed. No one got hurt, no one died and everything was perfectly normal. So here's the thing. It wasn't just like one city or one town where pride protests and rioting and it didn't happen just for one night. It's still happening. It's happening today. It happened last night while we're on this talking to each other. Even Tokyo had a protest against racism, the other day siding with American and other Brown people, because during COVID, all the Africans were kicked out of apartments they paid for in Japan and China that they actually paid for because of COVID. They were just like mistreating anyone who was staying there that weren't Asian citizens. So in that sense, it's like, my question is always about action. like when someone saw that their neighbor of African heritage was told to leave their apartment for no reason and was just given them notice and says, you all have to leave. What did that white neighbor do? how did they respond to give them a place to stay? Said, Hey, you can stay with me. Did they approach their community leader about that injustice? Say that they disagree with it because if everybody in their neighborhood said that they disagreed with kicking out the Africans that paid rent . Because there actually is a rule that you have to pay rent for up to six months in order to even get an apartment if you're not a resident, like you have to prepay six months of rent. So people were getting kicked out of their apartment where they still had months of rent they paid for it, and they weren't getting their money back. So the question is, if that whole neighborhood said, Hey, that's wrong. No, give them back their apartment. I'm sure it would have ended differently. And that's the same thing here. So, with my program with Adaptive Climbing Group, the focus is very much in equality. And not just because I'm a black woman, but just because I believe in equality in all aspects, even the ones that I don't personally belong to. I'm a hetero straight woman from Flatbush Brooklyn. But on my sponsored athlete, I've had white males, Republicans. I've had bisexual, transsexual, Hispanic, black, people don't know their race cause they're adopted actually. But just know they're kind of Brown. You name it. We've had it. Whether they've had a family that had money or came from absolutely nothing. And I never asked people how much money they have. To get sponsored by my program, the only time that you have to fill out any financial information is if you want total full sponsorship and you have to the poverty level of the state you live. That's it. I don't need to see what you spend your money on. Or what you value. If you want partial sponsorship, you don't have to show me any financial information at all. Cause that's not why we're here. We're here as one group of people with disabilities have access to a sport that's been denied of equality. And so if people bring those together saying, Hey, we're fighting under this one banner as people with disabilities. No matter what color you come from, or if your mom has an estate and two ramps in the house for you to get around because not everybody even has that option. It doesn't matter. Like all people with disabilities should be treated well as humans. And have their human rights, and should be able to enter the front door of any structure that is built for the purpose of human beings. That is a human right. And so I think if people stop just looking out for themselves and look at every neighbor as an extension of themselves, things would be so much better. Anyone who's different from you. If you're advocating for males and you're female, if you're advocating for female and you're male, if you're advocating for an abled bodied person, I don't know, whoever it is like you should think of every person around you in your immediate sphere.
Anyone that you constantly come in contact with as an extension of yourself. We're a part of each other. When you were born, Tiffany, you didn't just affect your parents' lives. It wasn't just your mother carrying you in the belly. You affected everyone in this world the day you were born. A nurse either got fired or hired. A doctor at his first birth of a Asian girl from, I don't remember what state you're from, but whatever it is, you affected their day. Their whole life, you became a part of all of those people's lives immediately from the day that you entered this world.
Tiffany Yu: Yeah. it's like rationally, I understand that. I'm seeing a lot of messaging around, we should just connect across our shared humanity. Honestly, that sounds like a very heart centered work to me of really just acknowledging and seeing every person as an extension of ourselves. I think there's something that got lost in the way, which is this whole idea of othering. That the people who look different and that othering became so, those lines became so defined, so deeply drawn by certain experiences that I guess maybe happened throughout our lives. Maybe that's where like starting with learning, reading How to be an Anti-Racist, reading White Fragility. Maybe that's where that starts. Maybe it's in engaging with podcasts created by people of color or giving donations to organizations that are working on racial justice or even speaking up. I think that's what I'm seeing that looks kind of different now, which you alluded to before. It's now people have been sitting in their homes for three months and maybe they have a little bit more time and we want to take action. We want to know how can I look at you Kareemah and see you as an extension of me?
Kareemah Batts: Oh, what's a good example. You choose people to follow on Instagram. And whether you personally know them or not, you've invested your time. And my experiences that I have in my life is a part of who make me who I am. Whether it's saying hi to a person on the street. Getting my food from the Chick-fil-A drive through cause they have gluten-free buns. But I don't know if anybody knows that they have gluten free breads, whether you're Christian or not, or care about their politics. They have gluten free buns. I go there. and that's what I need from them. So in that sense, everybody I interact with has now became an extension of my life. Because they have taken part in making me who I am today.
Tiffany Yu: Yeah.
Kareemah Batts: That will always be my sole way that I move through space in life. At the same time, it is really important for us to have the affinity spaces. For our mental health. And for people who don't know what affinity spaces mean. And especially in the diversity, equity, and inclusion speak. Cause I know a lot of these terms don't mean anything unless you teach this on for a living. But affinity spaces is where a bunch of people who are matching get together and express themselves with people like themselves. Which is why we have things like our little private Facebook groups . Where we talk about disability issues and whether or not they're able to get their medications in COVID or little tips and tricks that we need to buy that are very particular to how we move space. And then that we missed moved through the space different. We're looking for resources for people who move through that space differently. So that would be an affinity group. Those things are super important.
Tiffany Yu: You could even call Adaptive Climbing Group a type of affinity group.
Kareemah Batts: It totally is. I'm telling you, we're so weird and unique because yeah, we're people with disabilities, we're people with disabilities who like to climb, that is a very unique percentage.
Tiffany Yu: I'm trying to get on that in group too, but you actually got me thinking of just how important all of the communities that I'm a part of have allowed me to stay as socially connected as I am. So I have my Diversability's of the world. And then I have these other groups that are like, for people who are passionate about social justice. When I was in college, I was part of a group called Sponsors for Educational Opportunity. And it was meant for black and Brown students, Asian women , we were all working at our own investment banks . It was really the first time that I thought about what it was like to be a woman in finance or a disabled person in finance. What I started to think about the different affinities or the different identities I had that were impacting whether or not it was part of the majority or not.
Kareemah Batts: Two words that I hate that I've been hearing a lot on the news, and I've heard everywhere, especially during this heated time of racial discussion in America. Minority and majority. So they're like, minorities. And I'm like, what do you mean minorities? Look at how much of the population we are and why do you get to be the majority? Why are we using power words?
Tiffany Yu: Yeah. That's actually, that's part of the reason why I don't use the word marginalized.
Kareemah Batts: I'll use the word disadvantaged because that's true, but because at times the groups are disadvantaged. Based on a lot of factors that may include race or financial background or something, or all of the above. And so I'll use the word disadvantage. Hate the word privilege. I hate the word minority and majority as definitions, and I hate the word urban, and actually to be honest with you, I don't like diversity as a descriptor to mean people of color in the space. Or people with disability in a space that means like y'all sprinkled this in like seasoning bowl of white rice, which is a great side, but--
Tiffany Yu: I will tell people that diverse is a group, not a person. Why do you hate the word privilege? Because I feel like a lot of us are really thinking about what levers of privilege we do have right now to try and take action and to try and do something.
Kareemah Batts: Okay. So one time, me and some fellow advocates, we're three different races. We're black, we're two different types of Asian, Filipino and Indian. And we were on a panel where we were supposed to be the keynote for a big summit outdoors. It's called PGM One summit, which stands for people of the global majority, meaning people who are not Caucasian. Okay. And it was probably about 500 people of color who work in the outdoors and various forums for the government and state parks or run nonprofits that work in the outdoors. Ski instructors too, who's an amputee instructor and or policy makers that get people with disabilities outdoors. So we were the three or four that were invited where in which this is an all able bodied summit. We're trending as they say. So they checked the boxes and they really wanted to learn something they said. And I said, okay, great. They invited us to the space and there's a big stadium kind of seating with the stage and all the keynotes were on the stage. Well, guess what? The way to get on the stage was with stairs and of the four of us on the panel, one using a cane, one using crutches, myself with my prosthetic and then the other person had an electronic wheelchair. So we're like, all of us or none of us. So we said this is unacceptable the fact that we didn't know and we couldn't even attend all the workshops that they had because their building that they chose for this big summit was not accessible. So there were a couple of workshops that Theresa couldn't get to because you only had to go downstairs to get to in the middle of Philadelphia. So there, there was a lot of like inaccessibility in a summit that promoted accessibility, and that's where people of color with disabilities will get the side arm even in a station of people with disabilities. And then there was someone in the crowd that asked us, when we brought up the situation of why we weren't on the stage. They go, well, as able bodied people of color, shouldn't we be using our privilege? And I said to that person, I don't understand. What do you mean by privilege? That you're walking and she's not? That's a privilege? Does that make you better than me? Like, cause literally privilege is a power word. And I said, you have an ability, and I have an ability, my ability is that my parking space is better than yours. So if we decide to take my car, am I using my privilege for the better parking space at the stadium ? It's just like it's, I don't like it. I was like, I have an ability to get us a better parking space if we all went together in my car. Am I privileged? So now my disability is seen differently because it gets you to a better space. It's just like what?
Tiffany Yu: It's like, I hear it. I can see it both ways. I think that language is super important. And the way we've always talked about disability has always been, this person is suffering and they're impaired and accomplish this despite their disability. And, and a lot of, right. And a lot of that further perpetuates stigma. I think when you were talking about being a black disabled woman. I think that we were talking about aspects of privilege that do exist within the community, which is there is a hierarchy of disabilities that are better than others, quote unquote, whatever that means.
Kareemah Batts: this is a perceived notion, may I add. Cause like for instance, there's people in the deaf community that don't consider their language a disability. And that's because there's a large group of people who says the fact that they speak another language somehow makes them less than and that they should use their privilege. Do you get what I'm saying? These definers are what's messing things up because if I literally changed how I said that, and I did not use the word privilege, and if I said, Hey, you have an ability, during this protest that I don't, and they was like, what do you mean? And I said, well, Oh, you're destroying property and rioting. When you get arrested, you're likely to be treated with less aggression. So be very knowledgeable about all the abilities you have and use your ability in a positive way. Not your privileges, your abilities.
Tiffany Yu: Interesting. Well, I'll make one last point on this. Oftentimes within the disability community, we're always talking about people in terms of their abilities or their lack of abilities.
Kareemah Batts: I never talk about the lack of anyone. I feel like that is also part of my mantra too. I don't spend my time focusing on what people have, don't have.
Tiffany Yu: All of the abilities you're talking about are all additive.
Kareemah Batts: Everything is an additive. Anything I talk about is an additive, I see myself as being an amputee additive. Always, always have. Always, will. It's just part of my life. We all are handed a bunch of playing cards, and that's what I got. So I'm gonna use it. if it's true, I cannot change the world and get them to think exactly as I think. I'm very aware of it. But I feel that my point of being as an advocate is to live that message. Hopefully it'll just rub off on a few people each turn.
Tiffany Yu: Exactly. And you are getting me to think differently as well, and part of why I started Diversability was really around how can we have a narrative that I did all of these things because of my disability because of everything that I have been handed. My last question for you is, what role do you see the political process playing in all of this?
Kareemah Batts: Local or national? Federal is a whole different bag of tricks. I think locally it will be very, very great. I see it already. I see it in the news. I would like to see more discussion around people with disabilities. There was a video of like an older man who was pushed down by police as he's crossing his way. He had a cane on during what was happening. Another friend of mine said that a protester, who uses a wheelchair , who got pushed over in a chair, when they're pushing back the crowd. And the effects of that, of us taking part in protests. And then someone said, well, you shouldn't be out there. And I'm like, well, you should be out there too. Everybody getting hurt like like it's just a lot of different discussions that we need to have around this whole entire current movement that's happening right now. Both health wise, financial wise and racial wise during these last two to three months that COVID has brought a lot of disparities, whether you're a person of disability identifier, person of different sexes, trans . They can't get their medications like they used to right now, all these other barriers that are happening. Are being brought to light and when to see what is a priority, what seems to be among people. And so, I think that when it comes to that, I would love to see more flag-waving of those advocating for people with disability and as a result of police brutality because those stories are not being told. We're only getting able bodied stories. I've noticed that. Able-bodied people of color, police brutality is, is fervent. That's all I see. But every week, someone with a disability, whether it be behavioral or not, has experienced some sort of police brutality or became a person with a disability because of police brutality. Those kind of people have been in my climbing program too.
Tiffany Yu: Yeah. I feel like this conversation will continue to be ongoing, but if people want to continue the conversation, is there a place that they can find you online?
Kareemah Batts: Yeah. I have a website now because COVID made me make a website, had to do something with my hands and I can only be in my garden for so long, so KareemahBatts.com is website if you want to reach out to me. I do do diversity, equity, and inclusion work as a consultant and I've done it pro bono for the outdoor organizations where I'm, which I try to get people with disabilities equity in those spaces, equity is way more important to me than equality. And I work currently with USA Climbing on their Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Task Force for the next year and a half. I've provided training for Access Fund and the American Alpine Club and climbing facilities across America. I'm trying to create better disability etiquette in this sports experience overall using climbing as a catalyst to do that. So I'm always happy to work with people who want to do this kind of work and is passionate about it. So please reach out to me. And I'm also an Instagram. @herhopness, that's my personal Instagram. So you might see a lot of food on it. But there's also some good other stuff on there too.
Tiffany Yu: Awesome. What are you doing for yourself these days?
Kareemah Batts: What I'm doing for myself these days is I relearned how to use a bike, COVID, so I got to take that time and do that. And it's been an interesting experience from bike shop who had a mix of adjustments for me, and doing it independently, like being able to take an independent bike ride. It was a really big deal for me. And also for myself, I am spending more time in meditation to start my days.
Tiffany Yu: Well, thank you so much, Kareemah, for being on the show and really appreciated getting to have this candid conversation with you about how we can all show up and see everyone as extensions of ourselves.
Kareemah Batts: Thank you so much Tiffany for having me on and allowing me to have some therapy in conversation with you.